SIGforum
Fusion Reaction Has Generated More Energy Than Absorbed
December 17, 2021, 06:59 PM
mark123Fusion Reaction Has Generated More Energy Than Absorbed
I haven't found this on any major news sources yet, but if this is real, it's big!
https://www.sciencealert.com/f...absorbed-by-the-fuel quote:
A major milestone has been breached in the quest for fusion energy.
For the first time, a fusion reaction has achieved a record 1.3 megajoule energy output – and for the first time, exceeding energy absorbed by the fuel used to trigger it.
Although there's still some way to go, the result represents a significant improvement on previous yields: eight times greater than experiments conducted just a few months prior, and 25 times greater than experiments conducted in 2018. It's a huge achievement.
More at link.
December 17, 2021, 07:13 PM
kkinaThis indeed would be huge. I hope it's not another case like those two guys in the 80s, whose experiments no-body else could replicate.
December 17, 2021, 07:40 PM
goose5quote:
Originally posted by kkina:
This indeed would be huge. I hope it's not another case like those two guys in the 80s, whose experiments no-body else could replicate.
If memory serves that was Pons and Fleischmann, and they claimed a cold fusion break through.
_________________________
OH, Bonnie McMurray!
December 17, 2021, 09:08 PM
Modern Day SavageAbsolutely fascinating! Thanks for that article.
Assuming that net gain sustained reaction is eventually achieved, I'm still curious as to how it will be harnessed for practical applications.
Among my many concerns about the Left's push for renewable solar and wind generated electricity production, is that they might be expending vast amounts of tax payer funding, resources, efforts, political capital, and time on a technology with limited potential, when there might actually be technologies such as fusion that could,
eventually, offer far more
bang for the buck.December 18, 2021, 02:23 AM
AglifterIt’s real, sorta. The lasers consumed more power than was produced, but less energy was applied, than was produced.
It’s a legitimate source - at least, it ties in with announcements made at the Livermore lab.
It sounds a long way off, still/politically would be difficult - both due to the nuclear bit, and it would upset a LOT of apple carts.
December 18, 2021, 03:10 AM
mark123quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
It’s real, sorta. The lasers consumed more power than was produced, but less energy was applied, than was produced.
It’s a legitimate source - at least, it ties in with announcements made at the Livermore lab.
It sounds a long way off, still/politically would be difficult - both due to the nuclear bit, and it would upset a LOT of apple carts.
Yeah, that's right. They used 1.9MJ to produce 1.3MJ. However there was less than 1.3MJ applied to the fuel. Just a few more tweaks over the next 10 years (hopefully less) to improve the ignition efficiency and this could change everything.
December 18, 2021, 03:54 AM
OttoSigquote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
It’s real, sorta. The lasers consumed more power than was produced, but less energy was applied, than was produced.
It’s a legitimate source - at least, it ties in with announcements made at the Livermore lab.
It sounds a long way off, still/politically would be difficult - both due to the nuclear bit, and it would upset a LOT of apple carts.
Yeah, that's right. They used 1.9MJ to produce 1.3MJ. However there was less than 1.3MJ applied to the fuel. Just a few more tweaks over the next 10 years (hopefully less) to improve the ignition efficiency and this could change everything.
Those numbers are perfect for a state like California. No need to wait 10 years. that's effecient enough.
11 years to retirement! Just waiting! December 18, 2021, 05:49 AM
sgalczynquote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
It’s real, sorta. The lasers consumed more power than was produced, but less energy was applied, than was produced.
It’s a legitimate source - at least, it ties in with announcements made at the Livermore lab.
It sounds a long way off, still/politically would be difficult - both due to the nuclear bit, and it would upset a LOT of apple carts.
Yeah, that's right. They used 1.9MJ to produce 1.3MJ. However there was less than 1.3MJ applied to the fuel. Just a few more tweaks over the next 10 years (hopefully less) to improve the ignition efficiency and this could change everything.
Those numbers are perfect for a state like California. No need to wait 10 years. that's effecient enough.
I'm all in favor of putting the 1st fusion reactors in Cali............let them have the meltdowns and booms until the bugs are worked out!
"No matter where you go - there you are"
December 18, 2021, 05:53 AM
OttoSigquote:
Originally posted by sgalczyn:
I'm all in favor of putting the 1st fusion reactors in Cali............let them have the meltdowns and booms until the bugs are worked out!
You know what I'm saying though, they'll pay 10$ to make 8$.
11 years to retirement! Just waiting! December 18, 2021, 05:59 AM
Skins2881quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
It’s real, sorta. The lasers consumed more power than was produced, but less energy was applied, than was produced.
It’s a legitimate source - at least, it ties in with announcements made at the Livermore lab.
It sounds a long way off, still/politically would be difficult - both due to the nuclear bit, and it would upset a LOT of apple carts.
Yeah, that's right. They used 1.9MJ to produce 1.3MJ. However there was less than 1.3MJ applied to the fuel. Just a few more tweaks over the next 10 years (hopefully less) to improve the ignition efficiency and this could change everything.
These are in lab conditions for 30, 60, 90 seconds. I keep getting my hopes up when I read these articles only to be disappointed that they are either in lab conditions or very short term in tokamak reactor prototypes (still lab conditions).
The day they can produce a continuous controlled Fusion reaction in a reproducible reactor the world will change.
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis December 18, 2021, 10:03 AM
nhtagmemberInteresting to say the least but the breakthrough will be when it becomes a self-sustaining reaction - not quite there yet.
December 18, 2021, 12:16 PM
architectMy question is, "should I buy my DeLorean now, or wait until I can get one with a Mr. Fusion off the shelf?"
December 18, 2021, 12:24 PM
BBMWProbably just for nanoseconds. This isn't a sustained reaction. They zap a fuel pellet with a vast amount of energy from the lasers, and hope the resulting momentary reaction yields slightly more gross energy out than the lasers put into it. But this is not the type of reaction that could lead to a sustained reaction that could be used to harvest energy for, say electrical generation. So it's an interesting lab test, but nothing more.
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
It’s real, sorta. The lasers consumed more power than was produced, but less energy was applied, than was produced.
It’s a legitimate source - at least, it ties in with announcements made at the Livermore lab.
It sounds a long way off, still/politically would be difficult - both due to the nuclear bit, and it would upset a LOT of apple carts.
Yeah, that's right. They used 1.9MJ to produce 1.3MJ. However there was less than 1.3MJ applied to the fuel. Just a few more tweaks over the next 10 years (hopefully less) to improve the ignition efficiency and this could change everything.
These are in lab conditions for 30, 60, 90 seconds. I keep getting my hopes up when I read these articles only to be disappointed that they are either in lab conditions or very short term in tokamak reactor prototypes (still lab conditions).
The day they can produce a continuous controlled Fusion reaction in a reproducible reactor the world will change.
December 18, 2021, 01:32 PM
kkinaFusion power is a whole different can-o-worms than fission in terms of safety. The byproduct is just helium gas, not radioactive waste, and if there's a technical problem, the whole process tends to just shut down, and not runaway like fission does.
December 18, 2021, 02:45 PM
architectquote:
Originally posted by kkina:
Fusion power is a whole different can-o-worms than fission in terms of safety. The byproduct is just helium gas, not radioactive waste, and if there's a technical problem, the whole process tends to just shut down, and not runaway like fission does.
Hah! Tell that to the Sun. Nobody knows what will happen if fusion goes wrong, except maybe an astronomer.
December 18, 2021, 03:10 PM
Rey HRHI've worked as a nuclear plant operator in the navy and they've been on the search for cold fusion power for a long time.
Hopefully, it's inevitable we'll get there.
"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
December 18, 2021, 03:29 PM
kkinaquote:
Originally posted by architect:
quote:
Originally posted by kkina:
Fusion power is a whole different can-o-worms than fission in terms of safety. The byproduct is just helium gas, not radioactive waste, and if there's a technical problem, the whole process tends to just shut down, and not runaway like fission does.
Hah! Tell that to the Sun. Nobody knows what will happen if fusion goes wrong, except maybe an astronomer.
The sun has an immense thermal mass obviously capable of sustaining fusion, in essence a runaway reactor. On the scale of an earthly reactor, there's nowhere near this mass for a self-sustaining event. In fact the real challenge of an artificial reactor is supplying sufficient thermal energy to keep it running, as it really wants to shut itself down.
At any rate, we're still talking about a process that is inherently much safer than atom-splitting.
December 18, 2021, 03:30 PM
nhtagmemberI have no doubt that we will eventually get fusion as an energy source. My hope is that we develop it first before China or Russia.
December 18, 2021, 10:47 PM
wrightdIf you like fun sci fi movies watch "The Cloverfield Paradox", about scientists generating theoretically possible but difficult to obtain big energy. I'm not optimistic about fusion, but many people thought you could sail a ship over the edge of a flat earth not too long ago.
Lover of the US Constitution
Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster December 19, 2021, 05:01 AM
gearhounds“ At any rate, we're still talking about a process that is inherently much safer than atom-splitting.”
This is the primary reason I would love to see this work. Nuke plants are great until something goes south. Yes, it’s exceedingly rare but I still wouldn’t want to live anywhere downwind of one.
“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown