I’m trying to figure out what really happened to the company. Did general Keys just hire drinking buddies and let the place go to shit, or had the crap started before Keys and just continued with him? Did Keys I inherit a mess that could not be straightened out?
I understand that Colt sat on their asses about R&D and got fat on government contracts, and gave the common man the finger. I’m just not sure who was leading and at what point.

Colt has been a mess for decades. I do suspect that all that Uncle Sugar money allowed them to lose focus on the consumer market.

I have no idea about management names and specific persons. but I agree with your assessment that Colt got fat and rested on their laurels. There’s only so many really expensive 1911, snake revolvers, custom shop only cowboy guns and mil spec AR’s the market will bear. I have a bunch of colt 1911 and a few colt uppers and complete rifles. But let’s be real. Unless you want the COLT name on your gear there’s better quality stuff available. I even have 2 custom shop tuned 1911 a commander and a gov model. So I’m a fanboy as well. But my wallet can only take so much. Then their quality started slipping on the AR. They really need a good 22 auto to compete with Buckmark and Ruger. Hopefully CZ can impose some good ideas and quality controls. Maybe make some nice rifles again and not CZ rifles with a colt stamp but if the price is right maybe big I don’t want colt to be a cheaper version of CZ or vice versa. I have CZ bolt guns and they are awesome. I will put them up against any of my US bolt guns.

I want to buy American as much as the next guy but not when it’s crap or extreme limited choices.

It's been an ongoing issue for a long time. Someone could write their MBA thesis on Colt's failures and failures to bring products to market. Not really innovation but just downright failures t recognize trends in the market they could've absolutely DOMINATED and failed.

The 1911, the original manufacturer and still held in high regard. Kimber came up with innovation offering custom features at production gun prices and Colt just sat there with no action letting them steal the market. Even now look how many manufacturers are offering 1911's and Colt still sits there with very limited, conservative offerings.

Concealed carry. When states started adopting concealed carry laws there was a huge market for small concealable guns. Smith & Wesson sold practically every j-frame they could produce. Where was Colt with the Detective Special? Again, Kimber stepped up with the K6, offering a small concealable 6 shot revolver.

Cowboy Action Shooting. Guys like me being kids again playing cowboy with real guns. It could've been a huge market, almost everyone would love to have a genuine Colt SAA. There were all kinds of Italian clones. The Ruger stepped up with the Vaquero for $350. It was big and heavy but durable and affordable. Where was Colt. Trying to sell SAA's only through the custom shop at $1,200.

AR-15's. When the assault weapon ban subsetted it could've been a gold mine for Colt. Nope, they were still selling AR-15's with non-standard pin sizes, etc. Bushmaster cashed in on the market and everyone followed. Colt considered a, "Tier 1" or whatever on ar15.com just kind of bumbled along letting everyone else innovate and steal the market from them.

I'm sure there's a lot of other reasons as well; bad management, union contracts, etc. But just look at their history of missing the market and it's no wonder they're having problems today.

Oh and let's not forget some of their finer achievements in engineering and product development; the All American and the Double Eagle.

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
It's been an ongoing issue for a long time.

Yes, a very long time. Decades, starting with their union () troubles in the 1980s.

Colt's troubles go way, way back.

During late 1843, after the loss of payment for the Florida pistols, the Paterson plant closed and a public auction was held in New York City to sell the company's most liquid assets.

Colt has been perpetually going out of business since day one. Unless there's a major war on, they're in trouble.

quote:

Where was Colt. Trying to sell SAA's only through the custom shop at $1,200.

Spot on. This really made me sad when I went shopping for an SAA. I knew I'd pay a premium but I wasn't going to pay *that* premium. I wasn't going to get into cowboy style shooting, I just wanted a kick-ass revolver so I could pretend to be a cowboy in the bathroom mirror.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
Colt's troubles go way, way back.

During late 1843, after the loss of payment for the Florida pistols, the Paterson plant closed and a public auction was held in New York City to sell the company's most liquid assets.

If you know that much, then you know that the Colt’s Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company went into receivership because Samuel Colt had no real business sense and spent money like a drunken sailor. And not that it matters for the subject at hand, but he was also a pathological liar and couldn't spell worth shit (read his letters and you'll see).

For the last 30 years Colt was happy with SAA, Snake revolvers, 1911a, and ARs. The first two are niche markets, 1911s and ARs are being made more major brands than not, it is hard exist when of those 4 types, 3 are being made less expensive and in many cases better quality. And that fourth one (the snake revolvers) you drop for 20 years. Colt does have brand recognition, but relying on four models to carry your company, especially when the market place is saturated with your mainstay, the AR-15. If it wasn't for the GWOT, Colt would have been doomed 20 years ago, and I doubt Cohen could save it with his marketing gimmicks. And that doesn't get into the QC issues of using old machinery, union employees, and zero vision on where to take the company.

Just wanted to see what the ask is now. SAA starts at $3,450 goes up from there with every extra option. Factory engraved gun could be over 10k MSRP. wow. And never mind the wait. My custom shop 1911 were about a year each and I supplied the gun. And they were only about $1,000 of work then. Mid 20teens time frame.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws...Form+SAA+Q3-2019.pdf

Did I miss some specific complaint in the OP or is this just a general rant thread that got loose from the "What's my deal" barn?

I read somewhere once, that the price of a new Colt SAA, and then 1911's was traditionally about the same as an ounce of gold.

The moral of the story is:
Some people are good at gun makin'
Some people are good at company runnin'

Sam should have stuck with gun makin' and let someone else do the company runnin'.

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
If it wasn't for the GWOT, Colt would have been doomed 20 years ago

Vietnam before that, WW2, WW1, Civil war. Like I said, without one they don't know what to do.

Fortunately, CZ owns Colt now. The prices are high, but the quality I'm seeing is impressive. The first Pythons had flaws (some missing screws, etc) but it looks like the bugs have been worked out. I recently played with a King Cobra and the detail was fantastic, right down to the "gold" bead front sight. I have high hopes, having been angry with the company for years.