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Ammoholic |
No protection pics? Got a good rub to use on graphics cards? Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Stop Talking, Start Doing |
It was cooked to medium-rare. Seasoned with only salt and pepper. No protection pics -- it was gone too quick. _______________ Mind. Over. Matter. | |||
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| Member |
I would say that this is a temporary fix and a 7 year old Imac is past it's life expectancy..... | |||
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| Stop Talking, Start Doing |
6 years old and yes, I agree. Like I mentioned earlier I didn't wanna spend $600 to replace the board on a 6 year old computer. I'll just buy a new 27" iMac when this one dies again. Some people get a couple months, others get a couple years of additional usage with this method. It stills screams though, even being 6 years old. This is the first issue I've had with it. _______________ Mind. Over. Matter. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
Looks like I might need to try your recipe. My Graphics card just went.  Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
Perhaps the strangest IT-related thing I've ever read--baking a video card to "repair" it.This message has been edited. Last edited by: ensigmatic, "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
Actually pretty common for people to try it for several years now going back since 2008/2009 with owners of Nvidia graphic cards that were manufactured with weak / cold solder joints. God Bless  "Always legally conceal carry. At the right place and time, one person can make a positive difference." | |||
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| Member |
IDK about the cold solder joint explanation. You can't fix a cold joint by heating it to LESS than melting temp. I'm pretty sure that 500+ degrees are not achieved during this fix. Gotta be another explanation I should be tall and rich too; That ain't gonna happen either | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
Yup. Besides which temps high enough to re-flow solder under such conditions would destroy chips, result in unpredictable solder behaviour and not necessarily improve the solder joints (oxidation). "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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Lost |
A more reasonable explanation I've seen for the repair is the expanding and contracting of "bumps" on the bottom of surface mount chips. | |||
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| Shit don't mean shit |
Do folks just throw away an Apple product when it gets a few years old? I am typing this form a Windoze machine I built in 2005. Bought all the parts online and assembled it myself. 4 years ago or so I ordered a new CPU, Motherboard and RAM. Last year I bought and installed a new power supply. Last year about this time I bought and installed a 1 TB Western Digital drive for $20. I guess we really do live in a disposable society. I've had 1 Apple product, an iPhone 4s. It wouldn't hold a charge so I replaced the battery. Still wouldn't hold a charge so i took it to an Apple store. Since I had replaced the battery they would not even touch it, i twas basically a brick. I asked for a battery and they refused to sell me one. I don't understand the Apple appeal, at all. | |||
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Told cops where to go for over 29 years… |
Video card could be replaced, if I read correctly he didn't want to spend the money to repair a computer that old. To be fair, if you "replaced" the motherboard, CPU, and RAM 4 years ago it really is no longer the computer you built in 2005. It is the computer you built in 2013 reusing some peripherals and hardware from your old computer, some of which have since been replaced. Yes, for the most part these days electronics have become consumable/disposable with a design life and a finite life. Reasons are technology changes so fast that there is little point maintaining a repair path for obsolete tech. Additionally, costs have been driven to the point where it is cheaper to replace in most instances than the labor cost of troubleshooting and repair. Now if you can do the labor yourself and the parts are still available, then repair may still be an option. Again though, you need to weight the cost of parts vs the age of the equipment, the remaining expected useful life, and the cost of replacement. Part of the appeal of Apple is the phenomenal customer service they offer. While you may have experienced otherwise, I am not surprised that the manufacturer refused to repair something outside of warranty that had already been "fixed" by a third party. Apple warranties their repairs as well and the likely reason they wouldn't sell you a battery is they would not be able to warranty it given your choice to have someone else "fix" it first. Had you gone to Apple originally, you would likely have had a much different experience. Personally, I wouldn't bother putting over $150 or so into a computer that old or about 10-15% of what the cost of replacing it would be. What part of "...Shall not be infringed" don't you understand???  | |||
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| Ammoholic |
I just had the same problem. 2005 build computer graphics card died on me on Saturday. I spend $110 for a new card (less $20 mail in rebate). To me it has worked fine for anything I have wanted for so I see no need to spend $1,000-$2,000 bucks on a new one or build a new one for close to a grand. Part of it is the hassle of transferring docs and getting all the settings just right as well as all the updates I would have to do after installing my OS. I could have got a new card for 1/2 the amount (or less) then I spent, but I play one game and I wanted to see if it would improve the graphics. It did. I am perfectly happy to spend five minutes swapping a GPU vs the hours it would take to research a new computer or build. The time to get computer in my hands or build it. Then the hours it would take to transfer files. Then the hours it would take to update everything on the new build or purchase. Also it put off dropping money I don't have right now until a later date. Next year I can buy this years computer for 1/2 price. I identified the problem in the afternoon, decided by evening on the new card, had it delivered Sunday afternoon, and was playing World of Warships by late afternoon. Under 24 hours without my computer. Plus I was able to use it to print off my work stuff this morning which I have to do every day. Being computerless for a week-10 days was not an option for me. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Shit don't mean shit |
I can see what you're saying. However, I didn't replace the network, video or sound card. Or the fans and tower. In the early 1990's I restored my 67 GTO. I rebuilt the engine, trans and rear. Replaced the interior, and repainted it. Converted to disc brakes, posi, etc... Is it still a 1967 GTO or a 1990ish GTO?  I guess my biggest gripe with Apple is, from what I have seen, you can't walk into a store, buy a part and install it at home. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know. Is walking into an Apple store and asking for a new video card, plunking down ~$100, then taking the card home and installing it yourself an option? Replacing hardware isn't rocket surgery. I also don't take my car to a dealer when it needs brakes, but that's just me. Sorry for the drift and I am glad Cope got his machine up and running for minimal dough. | |||
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| Member! |
There is absolutely nothing wrong with baking typical circuit boards in an oven. The only difference between a regular oven and the $75,000 solder rework stations I use at work are that the $75,000 buys you finer control of temperature ramps, air flow, and duration. Typical solder blends, both lead free (which sucks) and leaded, used in electronics melt at under 400F and as long as you don't leave it in the oven too long re-flowing the solder, most chips will survive just fine. It's even better if you can add flux under the suspect chip with bad solder joints. As it's pretty hard to simply squirt flux to the center of a bigger chip that is already mounted (the gap is very tiny), a trick I use is to use a very "liquidy" flux and a air gun. Put a whole bunch of flux along "one" edge of the chip. Then use an air gun (or can of air) and blow air across the top of the chip away from the flux you just placed. The resultant low pressure zone on the opposite side of the chip caused by the air flow will draw the flux all the way under the chip evenly. If you were to simply try and blow the flux under the chip directly with the air gun , it would simply blow the flux all away and not get any under the chip where you want it. | |||
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| Told cops where to go for over 29 years… |
Apples (pardon the pun  ) to oranges comparison. A car is primarily "defined" by the body and frame, or the "outside". A computer is defined by motherboard/chipset and CPU and to a much lesser by extent video card and hard drive, the "inside".
In many cases you can by parts from Apple or other vendors assuming the machine is new enough and they are available. Apple doesn't use proprietary video cards, so could get a replacement from another source or used. The big issue is identifying it and getting the right one. Apple OS is designed around the peripherals they use, so needs to be the same model or one that was available on Apple otherwise system may not recognize it or work right. Not like windows where you can use any card of the right interface and just get a driver for the OS. What part of "...Shall not be infringed" don't you understand??? | |||
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| Member |
Years ago I used to do soldering for military towed sonar arrays. I had to be Mil-spec certified. IIRC depending on the tin / lead percentage combo and if any other metal was added the melting point of solder is about 350-370 degrees Fahrenheit. God Bless "Always legally conceal carry. At the right place and time, one person can make a positive difference." | |||
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| Member |
But... did you use an OVEN to solder at that temp? If you did , what was the temp set at? In an oven components would get to the same high temp as the joints as the board would have to be soaking in the heat. I am currently doing stacks of PB free connections using a pencil set to 650F. Solder definitely melts at a lower temp but does not flow well and takes too long to setup unless a higher temp (and shorter time-in-heat) is used. Leaded solder does flow at ~50F less. I just don't think an oven at that temp would do anything good for circuit boards. Lots of components die even at minimal solder temps if held there too long. I should be tall and rich too; That ain't gonna happen either | |||
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| Member |
Surface mount electronics are soldered in an oven & yes, the components get hot. With no power, a component can withstand much higher ambient temps vs when it is operating (and needs to move heat AWAY from itself to keep the magic smoke in). The only difference between a home oven & a commercial soldering oven is the way it ramps the temp & how it controls airflow. Every component has a 'soldering profile' of how to heat it to soldering temps & how long it can survive. 260*C for a few minutes is common (500*F). Lead free solder can melt at ~220-230*C, so the oven overshoot at 400* setpoint is probably what does the trick. Not properly, but good enough for a 7YO computer to get back in the game. I've fixed 3-4 HP laptops that de-solder the nVidia graphics chips from the main board. I use a $20 toaster oven to solder SMD parts. It beats the shit out of replacing an 0402 component by hand with an iron. 400*F is a pretty safe temp. I would suggest 1) cleaning the board with alcohol before & after & 2) warming the board more slowly in case of moisture. You can literally blow a part off the board if there is moisture trapped under it & you throw it in a >212* oven. I'd suggest preheating the oven to 'warm', then put the PCB to be soldered in just after you crank up the temp 400. | |||
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| Member! |
Your premise is wrong. The OP had a board that was already proven bad. Whether a reflow in an house oven or a state of the art reflow machine would not make the board worse than broken already. If the idea is that micro cracks have occurred in the GPU's solder joints due to continuous thermal expansion and shrinkage over time, then getting the solder to rejoin across a "micro crack" is much easier than a complete flow from the circuit pad to the chip pad. A micro crack in a solder joint of a BGA chip to circuit board is several orders of magnitude smaller than the physical size of the actual solder joint. The solder does not have to really flow freely to rejoin such a tiny crack gap compared to the amount of viscous flow needed when placing new BGA chip components or other surface mount components. In this regard (micro solder cracks), then a simple oven heat soak is plenty to get the solder to rejoin across such a small gap. It is true that some chip types are more sensitive to prolonged heat than others, however most components used in modern manufacturing are quite robust and can take quite a bit of heat time. True the manufacturer won't guarantee it to work, but in the real world, they usually do, especially used components that have been through hundreds of operational heat cycles from operation already. Simply put, the more delicate components tend to either fail quickly, or last a long time, even after a good rework. | |||
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