SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Highly trained then discarded when no longer useful - the real life of the elite Special Forces
Main Page The Lounge Highly trained then discarded when no longer useful - the real life of the elite Special ForcesGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| If you see me running try to keep up  |
Previous generations of boys grew up with aspirations of becoming warriors, commandos, some type of soldier trained to kill, sent on secret missions, saving lives in the name of their country and sometimes giving up their life while doing it. Green Beret, SEAL, Force Recon, Para Rescue and the elite of elite - Delta. With all the social media today we know much more about these groups of commandos than we ever have. Maybe that is not a good thing. All the media also allows us to see the other side of the coin, how those men are often treated after giving 15, 20, 30 years. The thread about Vickers got me thinking about this but there were other men like Tom Satterly (Delta member of Mogadishu fame) and others who describe how they were treated by our government. They were basically discarded and disregarded after they were no longer of use. But it's not just those from the US, SAS Operator Christian Craighead (Obi Wan Nairobi) describes the same after he recused hundreds in Nairobi. I listen to Shawn Ryan's podcast pretty regularly and it is a common theme among the operators - the way they are treated when no longer useful. I would suggest listening to some of these men and their experiences. If your sons are thinking about the same career path I would force them to listen to these. We are only hearing a fraction of what goes on with these men. But what we do hear is telling. Whether they suffer from long term health affects from being abused and blown up, from PTSD or are disillusioned about their treatment after leaving the teams, it is a much different picture than I imagined. You would think these men would be lifelong heroes with a government thankful for the years of their life they gave (including many failed marriages and children who grew up not knowing their fathers). Yet those who were once the elite turn to alcohol and drugs to cope. Out military already has problems with recruitment, special forces recruitment is down. With the truth coming out more and more I think it will be harder to recruit these men that our military needs. Yes, we need these men and our freedom depends on them. Hopefully our country will wake up before we go the way of Rome. Really just an observation in light of the Vickers thread and thinking about Ruby Ridge, Waco and other debacles that displayed our governments intentions. | ||
|
| Sigless in Indiana  |
If I understand the tidbits that I have heard from the rumor mill, Christian Craighead has been having issues with the brass in the UK .mil because they were upset at what he did in Nairobi. On the latest SRS podcast, they didn't even discuss the incident. I believe he is under some sort of gag order right now. | |||
|
Drill Here, Drill Now |
Our gov't repeatedly shits on our warriors transitioning to civilian life (e.g. recent VA hospital wait times and veterans suicides). It's sickening to watch our gov't treat illegal invaders better than our veterans. Do the tier 1 forces get less, same, or more transfer to civilian life coaching as rest of military? Tier 1 seems like one of the harder MOS to transfer to civilian life than say an electronics technician. I've personally worked with former Navy and Air Force technicians and they did well for themselves as oil & gas technicians. Seemingly easy hard skill transition, but soft skills took more work. Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer. | |||
|
Fighting the good fight |
How much of that disillusionment and substance abuse is laid at the feet of the government, and how much is a byproduct of their own dramatic loss of identity? Transitioning from an elite unit - where you have most/all of your identity wrapped up in being one of the guys and the best of the best - into just another Joe Schmoe can be a massive shock, and easily result in depression, substance abuse, misanthropy, etc. We even see it on the smaller scale with regular servicemembers who get out, or even with LEOs who retire or are forced out by medical issues. You go from being "a soldier/cop", with an identity and a purpose as part of the team with which you've formed deep bonds, to a nobody... It can be a rough transition. | |||
|
Member |
I'd like to read more. Is there a link? | |||
|
| If you see me running try to keep up |
You can listen to the podcasts here, they are pretty long. You can sometimes get the best parts from the Youtube shorts: https://shawnryanshow.com | |||
|
| If you see me running try to keep up |
No doubt much is due to their loss of identity and their own view on themselves. That is actually mentioned in some of the podcasts. But if you hear about how they handled Sattlery and his false drug use claims (due to errors in a blood test) and his retirement, it gives a little insight. Many of the tier 1 guys describes tidbits of the same treatment, Satterly states that others were treated just like him. Yes, we only have a tidbit of what all goes on, but I think that does give an indication of the overall treatment. Not everyone will agree with me but I think this is another indication of problems within. | |||
|
| Member |
Its not so much do they get treated the same, its do they take advantage of the resources and connections they have access to while being a SOF member. Those tier-1 operators have so many doors available to them, sometimes just a single phone call/email can get open doors or, introduced but, they don't take advantage, don't know how, get lazy about it or, dismiss the issue. Then once they're out, those doors aren't available like they once were and the opportunity to deal with issues is harder. A major issue that RougeJSK points out, is much of their identity is with the unit and roles they've been in for years/decades. When it's time to transition out, some have taken steps to prepare themselves for the change, they recognize that they're going to need to find a way to fit into it the big world. There's plenty of others who don't do the necessary preparation for life after service, and many are dismissive or, blasé about what they need to do. Many don't have a domestic partner or, their family is distant because of past issues that never get resolved, as going on deployment or, training provided an easy excuse to get out of doing the difficult. Many guys who jobs were direct action, there's very little jobs or, roles for such in civilian/regular-guy society. Some find a career as firearms trainers but, that requires a sense of entrepreneurialism, which is trait the military doesn't encourage thus many struggle with selling & marketing themselves, with managing expenses, managing taxes, legal issues. In the end, there's more the military and DoD can do to help with transitioning out of military service, the nightmare stories of indifferent attitudes at the VA or, general incompetence is heartbreaking and frustrating. | |||
|
Mistake Not... |
The main issue is this: the military trains you for military life, and does next to nothing for preparing soldiers to be civilians. The VA, which is supposed to be that buffer, is, in its current form, exactly the kind of system where if someone said "go and build a bureaucracy that is designed to do the opposite of what it's intended to do" that person would win an award for highest achievement. I have met, in my career as criminal defense attorney, far far too many soldiers who were tossed aside and left to fend for themselves. Soldiers who have earned the right to services who feel guilty for taking them. I will say this, I hate paying taxes except for this one exception: every member of our military should be treated to the best care possible, given the best training possible, given the best equipment, and given the best and healthiest transition to civilian life, paying whatever benefits, retirement, and/or disability they have earned with generosity, when they leave. I would HAPPILY pay whatever my share is to this goal. ___________________________________________ Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath. Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi | |||
|
Age Quod Agis |
I think this has a lot to do with it. I know two guys who were seals. One I have kind of lost contact with, but we still communicate occasionally through LinkedIn. The other I am in regular touch with, but seldom see him as he has moved from CF to Virginia. Both are successful. One has his own company focused on transitioning members of the SWC to civilian life and employment, and is also a founder of a successful charity. The other took advantage of the educational benefits, earned an MBA and then a PhD. and is now partner track at Accenture and a successful motivational speaker. Both are 100% service related disability. And by that, I mean TBI, crushed vertebra, tinnitus, joint injury, and PTSD. Both are successful because they leveraged the relationships, contacts and reputations from the teams, but also found a successful and profitable way to engage their post military talents. We owe these guys a clear path to obtain the benefits; health, employment and education, to which they are entitled, but at some point, it's on them to figure out the next phase of life, and be productive citizens. I don't mean to sound harsh, but at some point, the initiative has to come from the individual to put the past aside, and focus talents on the future. The government can help, as can any number of private organizations, but in the end, the transitioned warrior must find the same motivation and commitment that got them through the initial training, and sustained them for the long haul of missions, and apply it to their future. "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
|
| Member |
Its not just SOF types that struggle after discharge. Cops do too. The Loss of comradery, purpose and identity causes depression and alcohol abuse. Three of the guys I worked with died by their own hands. And several others from health issues I felt were job related. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
|
| Member |
Artie, Amen. Assistance from the government and contacts are helpful but the ultimate responsibility is on the individual. I partook of some government assistance and have helped many others over the years. There are also those that refused assistance and gave up. | |||
|
| Member |
Yup, same issues and same results, an unfortunate fact, is the rates of suicides after a cop retires. The loss of purpose, the inability to develop healthy interests, bad habits that become full-time problems, a likely string of failed relationships and world-weary attitude towards everyone leading to isolation. | |||
|
Member |
I agree 100%. I think it's important for people in this line of work to prepare themselves for life after living what can be an extremely high risk-high reward lifestyle. Good preparation includes making new friends that weren't in that world and keeping old friends/co-workers in the mix too. Dumping those relationships from "the old life" would be extremely stressful and causes harm on both ends. I watched the full two hours of Shawn Ryan's interview of Christian Craighead last night on YouTube and it was outstanding. I'd encourage every SF member to watch it or listen to the podcast. Christian isn't just smart tactically, and a brave individual, he offers a lot to those who listen. His problems with managers/politicians in the UK seem to be more related with those who hate the dedication shown by "worker bees" like Craighead that take their oaths seriously, to the point of laying their life on the line. If these same critics supported those on the line, the critics themselves would be expected to be accountable and we know how that would turn out. "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken." | |||
|
| Get my pies outta the oven!  |
Not sure I agree with that. When it came close to ETS out of the Army (ETS is the expiration of your service), they made me go to classes for like a week straight that did just that; prepared you for civilian life. That was 1995 so maybe they don't do that anymore? | |||
|
| Age Quod Agis |
Another thing that I think they are unprepared for, is the lack of merit and accountability in modern life. Too many managers and leaders (I use both terms advisedly) are where they are for seniority, who they know, ass kissing, or other less than admirable traits, and when they screw up, either there is no accountability, or it falls on lower heads (the military has this problem, now, as well). When you are a soldier, sailor, airman, cop, firefighter, surgeon, pilot, EMT, etc., if you screw up, people die. That creates serious accountability in the hearts and minds of those who do these kind of jobs. They note that the rules that they followed for personal honor, and out of care for the accountabilities of their jobs, no longer apply in pushing paper, or selling widgets. In fact, it's not encouraged. Keep your head down, do what we tell you, don't show initiative, get your check, go home and drink. The transition to modern American or civilian mores can be even more shocking than the loss of sense of self, and further reinforces what you used to have, what you no longer have, and it makes you wonder why you were willing to fight for these people in the first place. That is the definition of a downward spiral. "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
|
| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
I would agree... BUT: We have to STOP using the military to police the world and to enrich congress/civilian leadership of the "military industrial complex". What we are spending on Ukraine is a prime example. It's a money laundering operation. That's not the fault of the soldier, but that's why the military budget is so bloated without taking adequate care of these guys. I'd like to see a smaller, more efficient military. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
|
| Made from a different mold  |
Transition Assistance Program (TAP) is available but short sighted and depending on the command, may not even be accessible until after separation. The military beats the individuality out of a person and trains us on how to fight wars. They spend years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to do this, but when it comes time to leave all we get is maybe a WEEK of some lame classes that have no relevance outside of the duty station you're leaving (it really is just a local job fair). The command has no vested interest in you or your success since you're at the door, on the way out. My command had me doing bullshit details for the last 10 days of my service. They almost made me ETS directly from NTC! How's that for a fuck you? ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
|
| Member |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You cannot do that in a week. Just like flying a 737 after a week of training. I have friends that are retired military. The ones that adjust to civilian work for the government or on a military base. My neighbor who was a retired Air Force officer had a really hard time. | |||
|
| Member |
No week of classes for me before separating, of course, that was about 30 years ago. I was already enrolled in college and obtained a BSEE in three years while working at Walmart and MCI. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Highly trained then discarded when no longer useful - the real life of the elite Special Forces
Main Page The Lounge Highly trained then discarded when no longer useful - the real life of the elite Special Forces© SIGforum 2025