I've heard someone explain that to remain true to Popper's Theory of Falsification a scientist must first and foremost be skeptical.

Rush said it many times over the years.

“ LIMBAUGH: If there ever is scientific proof -- and see, I don't need scientific proof because to me the people who are promoting manmade global warming are a bunch of frauds. They are liberals, they lie. It's not a generalization. It is an undeniable truth of life. [Premiere Radio Networks, The Rush Limbaugh Show, 3/8/11]”

Because humans are just the animals we need monitoring and controlling the climate on our planet. The unintended consequences and likely long term result of human beings 'helping' the planet on a massive scale is truly frightening. Nature finds balance, we should probably leave it alone.

I know for a fact eastern Washington State used to be where Asia is. So if the continents can move over time the weather is surely going to change.

I love history and here's one I recently watched. There's been some amazing global events. There were 2 major ones in the 1800's.

quote:

The Mystery Of 536 AD: The Worst Climate Disaster In History | Catastrophe | Timeline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUz5Vjq9-s

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
People are more easily controlled through fear.

Never forget that.

Yep! Im not afraid of the democrat claims. Remember Manhattan was supposed to be under water in 2016. If they want to talk about cleaner air without all the world is going to end BS i would be open to it. Who doesn’t want cleaner air? That being said i am not about to allow the destruction of the country for clean air and i ain't gonna live in a teepee either. Small incremental changes sure…

Regardless if global warming is anthropogenic or natural, I don’t see how socialism/communism is the answer. Leftist ideology has historically been a disaster for the environment.

Monther nature don't care. Honey badger don't care. The amazing Human race is a blip on the map of geological time and cosmic existence. That people think they really matter, and they have enough power to destoy the Earth, is as stupid as it is irrelevant. The Earth will continue. Honey badger may last longer than Man, maybe not, but in the end both will cease to exist in their present form. People should take more natural science classes before they call themselves experts, esp. since the real experts will be the first to tell they nor anyone else knows.

Sooooo, I guess that's it !

The problem is the kids who went to college in the late 1960's early 70's think they can control nature or whatever you want to call it. Acid rain, the ozone hole, etc.

Is there really climate change? Isn’t the climate what the climate is? Like room temperature. Room temperature is whatever the room is. It’s our fault, that’s what we get for killing off all the dinosaurs.


Also… Not to alarm anyone, but every evening I got outside push on the side of my house. Doing this every has caused the earth to start rotating. But if you send me money, I’ll stop doing it.

So here is really where the rubber meets the road. This is an energy budget by Kiehl and Trenberth 1998. Kevin Trenberth used to be with the University of Colorado. Now I'm just a lowly, mud sucking welder/fabricator but something about this doesn't make sense. This whole study is kilowatts per square meter. Ultimately 342 Kilowatts per square meter coming in from the Sun, and going out into space. How is it 350 watts per square meter come off the Earth's surface? Where does the 8 watts per square meter come from? Is this a violation of the First Law of Thermal Dynamics? The Conservation Law? And, given the spectrograph information in a previous post how is almost all of the IR radiated back toward the ground. It's almost as if those CO2 molecules have a divine influence to shoot those photon back towards the Earth's surface. Not sideways. Not back up toward space. They are all oriented to reflect back down toward the Earth's surface. Amazing how that happens.

energy budget by Kent Matthew, on Flickr

I don't think in terms of climate change but in environment change.
This more or less include all the pollution we are creating, such as chemical pollution of the air, water and soil. This includes chemicals dumped on the ground/ crops to kill weeds & bugs. Some food products have been found to have some of these chemicals in them.
Breakfast cereal was one of them, people like to use cereal as finger food for babies.
All the garbage being buried in landfills has all sorts of toxic chemicals leaching into the ground which affects our water. That means someday our drinking water and irrigation water will be so toxic we will have serious problems. Already happening in many areas. PBS had a program several years ago on how may agricultural areas are already.
All the chemicals in the air end up causing respiratory problems and much of the chemicals eventually end up in the ground/water.
For many years now we have been creating nuclear waste which may someday leach into the ground.
And now we are going to have to start special landfills for all these batteries we will be using to stop using oil/coal.
Our oceans are getting chocked with plastic and many other chemicals which is working it's way into our food sources.

Maybe these problems won't get out of hand in our life times but now is a good time to work on preventing it from happening in the future.

In case you hadn't caught on, the Administration and Media (but I repeat myself) have altered the messaging. They are in the middle of a shift in messaging from "Climate Change" to "THE CLIMATE CRISIS!!!!!"

quote:

In case you hadn't caught on, the Administration and Media (but I repeat myself) have altered the messaging. They are in the middle of a shift in messaging from "Climate Change" to "THE CLIMATE CRISIS!!!!!"

Well, of course it's a CRISIS!!
The first $100 Billion didn't help a bit...

America's $100 Billion Climate Change Flop
By Stephen Moore

For at least the last 20 years, politicians in Washington, at the behest of green energy groups, have spent some $100 billion of taxpayer money to fight climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. How is that going for us so far?

A recent Associated Press story, based on the latest data on global carbon emissions, provides a pretty accurate report card: "Carbon Dioxide Emissions Reached a Record High in 2022."

The article tells us: "Communities around the world emitted more carbon dioxide in 2022 than in any other year on records dating to 1900, a result of air travel rebounding from the pandemic and more cities turning to coal as a low-cost source of power. Emissions of the climate-warming gas that were caused by energy production grew 0.9% to reach 36.8 gigatons in 2022, the International Energy Agency reported Thursday. (The mass of one gigaton is equivalent to about 10,000 fully loaded aircraft carriers, according to NASA.)"

You've got to almost shriek out loud when you read this line: "Thursday's (IEA) report was described as disconcerting by climate scientists."

"Disconcerting"? That's putting it lightly. We are the furthest thing from being climate change alarmists, but when you spend $100 billion of taxpayer money and achieve absolutely nothing, President Joe Biden and his green allies should be arrested for criminal fraud.

Where did all the money go? Tens of billions of dollars have lined the pockets of left-wing environmental and social justice groups that have been emitting a lot of hot air but no results. Green energy companies have milked taxpayers of tens of billions more, even as wind and solar only produce about 12% of our energy.

Is this the greatest ripoff of U.S. taxpayers in history?

I've often said that I doubt all the doomsday predictions of global warming are accurate, but if they are, we are goners. Because nothing the Left is doing on climate change is making even the tiniest bit of difference, as the new report shows. What it is doing is giving politicians and activists a chance to virtue-signal. Does it even matter to them that none of their schemes are working?

The most obvious flaw in the green strategy is that few, if any, of the big polluters are cooperating despite the assurances from Biden's climate change ambassador John Kerry. For the umpteenth time: The United States is not the problem — China is. Its pollution levels are three times higher than ours. Soon India will surpass the U.S. in carbon emissions.

Even the top scientists who study climate change admit that without progress from China, nothing America does to reduce emissions will reverse the global trends. The U.S. has reduced our emissions more than any other nation, and the problem continues to get worse. And yet, the rest of the world blames the U.S.

All we are accomplishing in the Biden war on fossil fuels is kneecapping our own domestic energy industry while the rest of the world consumes more fossil fuels than ever before. Instead of the oil and gas produced in Texas or North Dakota, it's coming from Russia, Iran and OPEC. The energy source that is growing the fastest now is coal.

The only way to combat climate change is not through more command-and-control government action. That never works. The COVID-19 crisis and the incompetent government response should have taught us that lesson. We need more growth and better technology to deal with a changing climate. The leftists want less growth and have even been backing "degrowth." Since when is making America poorer the solution to any problem?

In the wake of this epic policy failure, the Democrats aren't backing off. Biden's latest budget calls for $500 billion more for climate change over the next decade. Talk about throwing good money after bad. We shouldn't be too surprised because, as Milton Friedman used to remind us, anytime a government program isn't working, the politicians' response is: "We aren't spending enough money."

If congressional Republicans are smart (a big if), they will not appropriate one penny more for this epic public policy flop. If we want to save our country's future for our children, the first step is to stop adding to our $32 trillion national debt.

https://www.creators.com/read/...-climate-change-flop

^^^ Chellim1, thanks for posting this.

I believe climate change is a hoax, perpetrated by Marxists towards their end of perpetually pestering, debilitating eventually destabilizing western free/capitalist economies.

If we think humans can impact the environment more than the damage from a single volcano eruption can or a weeks long forest fire can, etc. then China and India need to step up do the right thing first.
China and India are polluting not the western world.

quote:

Originally posted by goose5:
So here is really where the rubber meets the road. This is an energy budget by Kiehl and Trenberth 1998. Kevin Trenberth used to be with the University of Colorado. Now I'm just a lowly, mud sucking welder/fabricator but something about this doesn't make sense. This whole study is kilowatts per square meter. Ultimately 342 Kilowatts per square meter coming in from the Sun, and going out into space. How is it 350 watts per square meter come off the Earth's surface? Where does the 8 watts per square meter come from? Is this a violation of the First Law of Thermal Dynamics? The Conservation Law? And, given the spectrograph information in a previous post how is almost all of the IR radiated back toward the ground. It's almost as if those CO2 molecules have a divine influence to shoot those photon back towards the Earth's surface. Not sideways. Not back up toward space. They are all oriented to reflect back down toward the Earth's surface. Amazing how that happens.

energy budget by Kent Matthew, on Flickr

I think this guy provides a good explanation of Kiehl and Trenberth. good graphics too... https://wattsupwiththat.com/20...rface-energy-budget/

Anyone who says they have a model or algorithm to predict the climate, yet hasn’t made all the money available in the financial markets - which are orders of magnitude less complex - is a liar and a fraud.

The earth wobbles and the planet's orbit has fluctuations.

The sun also has cycles.

The climate is changing, it always has.

I have been saying for 40 years it's the sun stupid.

It is hubris to think we are more than a pimple on the planets ass.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
I'm not saying it's not changing, I'm saying I didn't cause it.

My questions for the climate change religious cult are these:

How do they think we can tax our way out of it? How does that work?

If carbon dioxide is the great environmental boogeyman, (LOL) why aren't they screaming for the planting of billions of trees everywhere?

Have I got this all wrong?

Never mind...

By applying a financial penalty/burden, it'll alter people's behavior (ie. nicotine tax). This sometimes works, and other times results in unintended consequences. This is a common vehicle when viewing through an economists lens.

We all know that charities with aggressive campaigns and promotions (Wounded Warrior, Breast Cancer Relief Foundation, etc) barely see initial donations make it all the way through to the intended beneficiaries; climate tax is the same racket. The organizations that see the grant money filter through to them, allows those at the top, to line their pockets, while middle management can maintain a career while claiming they're apart of a jobs program for the believers, I mean foot soldiers. The government agencies that get funding directly through this, merely see it as revenue, a tap of money that if it was flowing just a bit faster we could do X.


As a whole, I believe we live on a living planet, sometimes it heats up, sometimes it cools down; that's what makes earth different than other planets. We have enough history to know that this is irrefutable. The time of the dinosaurs and early man, the earth was warmer than today; man also survived through a series of ice ages. We also know that pumping out coal exhaust into the air isn't a good thing in the long term, nor is dumping your trash into waterways (that was a thing for awhile) not very good either. Unfortunately, many political and high-profile types have taken it to be their cause celeb, the younger generation, not very nuanced or, sophisticated run with the idea and ham-fist a position into a near-religion.

I hope we can agree that that policies associated with the "climate change" agenda isn't about actually "saving the planet" but about controlling people by the elite. They may impose tax burdens on our behavior but they can shrug off those same tax burdens because it's of little consequence to them proportionately so they can still fly their fleet of private jets and ocean going yachts.

I am for good stewardship of the environment and natural resources but, what is happening is the pendulum swing equally disastrous as when companies dumped wastes and chemicals into the waterways with no regard.

Super long read I picked at random from google to illustrate what I feel makes a folly of the excess concern of carbon use and climate change.
Slowly, regardless of the above, change has and will continue to happen.


PLATE TECTONICS AND CLIMATE CHANGE