Got a line on a SuperCrew 2003 F150. I assume they never pass a gas station more than twice without stopping?
But the real question is... how useful is real wheel drive in this thing?? I have a FWD car already but looking for a dedicated AWD or 4x4 for bad weather and Hone Depot runs. Am I going to miss 4x4 that much??? (Edit - location is Philadelphia)

quote:

how useful is real wheel drive

this is a question the runs into 2 basic camps; those who have reason to want it, and those who don't.

My belief is that if I don't know I can't live without some feature, I probably can mostly get along without it. On the other hand, I haven't been without a 4x4 most of the last 50 years.

Whether you can stand to shift it into or out of 4x4 as desirable, will answer that question.

It still does very little to help you stop in the slick.

If you are hoping to be able to get around in a snow event (over a couple of inches on snow covered roads), the my answer is no. For reference, I spent about 15 years working emergeny services in the Philly area. A few things to keep in mind, most drivers I encountered in a snow event had no common sense, exercised poor judgment, and did not know the performance of their vehicle. What would occur are people abandoning their "stuck" vehicles in the road way, thus causing a ripple effect, no where for cars to get past, then no way for plows to come through. More then once I had to get creative to get drivers through that could "drive" and had vehicles that could handle the task- like drive through a frozen grassy area to get past the standstill. Second, the Pholly area is hilly, especially once you get west and north. Third, plow and salt trucks always seemed to be behind the curve for "minor" snow events and that's when the problems arise.

Any storm with predicted moderate snowfall and above were "great", the media made everyone panic and no one would be out, roads would be empty and a blast to drive to work in. The small storms were the ones I dreaded. Not enough to make people afraid, just stupid.

I live in the mountains of central PA, and everybody around here, who isn't Amish has at least one 4X4. Most, like my wife & I have two. I have the pickup for hauling & my wife has the Jeep for everything else. PEN DOT isn't the best at keeping the roads cleared in the Winter around here.

I wouldn't own a car without AWD or 4WD. For a truck or suv, it expands the potential buyer pool when you go to sell it, and thereby slows the effects of depreciation. For a car, it increases the vehicle's road worthiness in more driving conditions.

With the cost of cars what they are, and the nominal cost to add AWD or 4x4 now that all cars are pretty much built on modular platforms, opting for AWD or 4x4 is similar to opting for disc ABS brakes when it was a premium option.


Lastly, RWD trucks are pretty terrible in slick/icy/snowy conditions. Even a FWd sedan would be better than a RWD truck in terms of safety in bad weather. If you get snow or ice in PA, then I would stay away from a RWD truck.

I live SW of P'Burgh. All cars we have purchased in the past 10yrs are AWD. Couple of Subaru's, couple of Hyundai's, and couple of Toyota's. I rarely drive my Subaru, and keep the snow tires mounted on it year round.

Back in the Dark Ages of the 1960s, people got by with rear wheel drive cars and trucks. They used snow tires, and chained up to drive in the mountains. That was a pain in the ass.

You say you’re “looking for a dedicated AWD or 4x4 for bad weather”, though. So you ought to hold out for one.

Our old AWD Subaru and AWD Pilot are better than my Tacoma in snow. I have a shell on the bed, 8 bags of salt over the axles and very good tires and even with this extra weight, our SUVs are still better. Pickups are front heavy and won't compete with a good SUV.

I live in Houston, and have very little need for 4wd, so we went with RWD on our Expedition & Explorer.

We took the Expedition to Denver for Christmas last year & never had any issues getting around the Denver/Greely/Estes Park areas without 4wd.

Good tires go a long way as well.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
Our old AWD Subaru and AWD Pilot are better than my Tacoma in snow. I have a shell on the bed, 8 bags of salt over the axles and very good tires and even with this extra weight, our SUVs are still better. Pickups are front heavy and won't compete with a good SUV.

Assuming your Tacoma is 4x4, the weight distribution is also a factor. Interesting point. I think the F150 is out. The Honda Ridgeline is back in. I don't need the payload of a true truck, but the AWD system is transparent.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I live in Houston, and have very little need for 4wd, so we went with RWD on our Expedition & Explorer.

We took the Expedition to Denver for Christmas last year & never had any issues getting around the Denver/Greely/Estes Park areas without 4wd.

Good tires go a long way as well.

Not making fun, but didn't Robert Earl Keen have a song where he said that "there's nothing more dangerous than Texans on ice."?

Edit: Sorry, it was James McMurtry.

My experience is 1/2 ton RWD trucks can go pretty well in snow as long as you have good snow tires on and some weight in the bed.
Oh and a set of chains on the floor

quote:

Originally posted by Ironbutt:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I live in Houston, and have very little need for 4wd, so we went with RWD on our Expedition & Explorer.

We took the Expedition to Denver for Christmas last year & never had any issues getting around the Denver/Greely/Estes Park areas without 4wd.

Good tires go a long way as well.

Not making fun, but didn't Robert Earl Keen have a song where he said that "there's nothing more dangerous than Texans on ice."?

Edit: Sorry, it was James McMurtry.

My comment about driving out there "just don't be stupid" and you can get by pretty well.

As mentioned already, I would not own a vehicle in my part of PA (northeast Pocono region) without some type of 4x4 drive.

Our daily driver is a Jeep Compass that is front wheel drive, but has the ability to engage the rear wheels too. I’m not going off roading with it, but it has gotten me home. This replaced a Jeep Grand Cherokee that was 4x4.

A couple of years ago my wife’s 2wd Nissan PU bit the dust right before hunting season. I needed a truck asap and found a great deal on a Ford Ranger, but it was only 2wd. I figured what the heck, I’ll manage. Boy, do I wish I had bought one with 4wd!!! Driving home from hunting a few times was……………thrilling!

So a good question would be “
What are your needs?”

Ability to get anywhere every day of the year, no matter what?

4WD off roading in very rough country plus going in heavy snow when everyone else stays home?

Getting to work 100% of the time?

Construction supplies delivery 360 days a year?

If it is getting to work through some snow on the roads - a Subaru wagon is better for the job.

4WD Trucks are great for pretty much everything else.

However, if your other vehicle is 4wd and you can use that when the weather gets rough, you may not need a 4wd truck at all.

As a qualifier - I have had the following:
All 4wd -
‘52 Willys Jeep
Datsun truck
Nissan truck
Toyota Tacoma truck
Ford F350 dually flat bed, diesel.

They could all get me around in just about any weather.
They all also got poor mileage when compared to the 2wd models.

My truck now? 1995 2wd Dodge Ram diesel. I am regularly getting 20 mpg around town. I am getting that because the gearing in the differential is different from that in 4wd trucks.
My consideration when buying this truck (besides finding a Cummins engine) was best mileage and long life. I have reliable transportation, in Pennsylvania, for something better than 340 days per year. If I REALLY need to get out the other days I take my wife’s Subaru.
If you don’t NEED to get out maybe you want the better mileage?

quote:

Originally posted by signewt:
It still does very little to help you stop in the slick.

Long ago a friend of mine related a statement made by one of his friends: "Don't be overconfident. Four wheel drive doesn't necessarily mean you'll make it home; it often means you'll get farther from home before you get good and stuck."

My folks used to live in Doylestown, but have since moved back up here, but I still have family in the York PA area.

While there are some hills around them, 4x4 is not what I'd consider a requirement. Useful sure, but 2wd and a good set of dedicated snow tires would serve just fine.

For reference, I have a company van (Chevy Express 2500) that is rear wheel only, and I have no issues driving with the dedicated snow tires. Now, the early snow we got before my snow tires were on? Yeah, that was a tad bit difficult.

My Truck and SUV are both 4x4, but that is for mud season on the unpaved roads at the range and around the yard. Areas the van would never see.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
My experience is 1/2 ton RWD trucks can go pretty well in snow as long as you have good snow tires on and some weight in the bed.
Oh and a set of chains on the floor

Mud grips and a tire filled with concrete in the bed. That’s how we rolled in the 1970’s.

I live in an area where we do not get snow. Ever. We don't get ice. Ever. We occasionally get a few rain drops. On paper I have very little need for an AWD/4x4.

However, I've never heard a reason that I found compelling to not have it on at least one of our vehicles. This has enabled us to occasionally venture into the Sierra's during the winter to play in a few inches of snow and then return home. I even buy my tires specifically to support that as well. I figure I don't drive in the snow but once or twice a year so every single advantage I can reasonably get is money well-spent.

I have found 4x4 neccesary on a few occassion, usually when I chose to play in some mud in my old Durango or the F150 that came after. Though once, on one of the afore mentioned 'snow trips' the 4x4 DID save our bacon... Coming home there was a little bit of snow on the road and it was coming down lightly... there was a uphill section of the highway that an exceedingly similar truck of mine clearly couldn't make it up and had slid backwards. He was RWD only with decent AT tires. I had two sets of chains and they happened to be compatible with his tires, so we strapped them on his drive wheels and he made it up. I also made it up, without chains, but with my 4x4 active.

So again, at least one of our vehicles will always be AWD or 4x4. I don't care about the slightly worse mileage, or the 'more things to go bad', or extra weight, or whatever other reason people like to say.

To be perfectly transparent the 4x4 DID get me into more trouble than I would have gotten without it, on the very first of those 'snow trips'. I ventured down a dirt logging road that was absolutely snow covered and somewhat rutted, downhill. After a mile or two my sense kicked back in and I thought "WTF am I doing?? I don't know how to drive in this and nobody knows where we are". I tried to turn around. Couldn't.

We had to hike back out up the dirt road, then about 3 miles on a paved backwoods road, in sub-freezing weather, in the dark, with no cell reception, and completely improperly dressed. We then proceeded to wait on the side of a highway for 5 hours for a properly equipped wrecker to get to us. 3 hours after getting picked up we were back with 4 wheels on pavement. I was sufficiently humbled and learned several important life lessons that day.

LOL, we haven't had more than a coating this year.

If your mindset is you must get around in 1-3 (average) days of heavier stuff a year, live on a hill, play in the mud ect, then go for it. Meanwhile you should pay less, have less maintenance, and have a bit better MPG.