Charles Murray is one of my heroes. If you have kids (or grandkids in my case) that are approaching college age, then you might want to listen to this. Murray isn't PC but IMO what he says is God's truth. The talk is about 20min long and explains a lotta stuff. Linkie

Collapse of the college degree, or collapse of the B.A.? He was rather more specific. B.A. is different than B.S. in Healthcare Informatics, or B.S. in Aeronautical Engineering.

About a year ago, in order to feed my Sig addiction, I got a part time job at a local grocery store. I lasted 3 days. It was evident that the job sucked and the promise of some, although limited, advancement was not going to happen. It became evident because of the dude they assigned to train me. He was in his mid 20s and had worked at the store since he was a teenager. He had worked at the store while attending college and had a 4 year degree. What was his position? When he was not training me, he was a cashier. And he filled in as a bagger.
4 year degree. Nearly 10 years with the store. And a cashier. I wondered if he lacked ambition or motivation. But what was clear was whatever money was spent for the degree was wasted. Since that time, I have made it a point to ask any young people I meet about their education and job. Most were degreed. None were employed in the fields they studied in college. It amazes me that kid and parents spend large amounts of money on a degree that seems overrated or useless.

Coming collapse?

It’s already cratered...they are about worthless.

Free low interest cash and PC stance made them “mediocre”...easy to get for all with lowered standards for “inclusion”

...welcome to another benefit of socialism.

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
Coming collapse?

It’s already cratered...they are about worthless.

Free low interest cash and PC stance made them “mediocre”...easy to get for all with lowered standards for “inclusion”

...welcome to another benefit of socialism.

You forgot to mention online degrees.
Absolutly destroyed the value of a degree. Completely worthless.

If I was an employer and in charge of hiring online degrees would not count.
If it is a secondary degree. I can see that I guess but full online degrees. Nope.
Complete and utter nonsense.

Like anything else. Supply and demand. Used to be people who held degrees were the exception in the workplace. Now everyone who can fill out a few forms and fog a mirror can get one. Most are meaningless degrees, few are in STEM or business areas. Now the supply has exceeded the demand. But graduates from trade schools will find a lot of opportunity out there. Snowflakes don't want to get their hands dirty, so there is a shortage of skilled labor.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
About a year ago, in order to feed my Sig addiction, I got a part time job at a local grocery store. I lasted 3 days. It was evident that the job sucked and the promise of some, although limited, advancement was not going to happen. It became evident because of the dude they assigned to train me. He was in his mid 20s and had worked at the store since he was a teenager. He had worked at the store while attending college and had a 4 year degree. What was his position? When he was not training me, he was a cashier. And he filled in as a bagger.
4 year degree. Nearly 10 years with the store. And a cashier. I wondered if he lacked ambition or motivation. But what was clear was whatever money was spent for the degree was wasted. Since that time, I have made it a point to ask any young people I meet about their education and job. Most were degreed. None were employed in the fields they studied in college. It amazes me that kid and parents spend large amounts of money on a degree that seems overrated or useless.

Damn, that's a shame because supermarket store managers can easily make $100k+

In hindsight for myself, I would have joined the Air Force first, before going to college. You can always go to college later. Going into the service later is a lot harder.

I have a decent job while I work towards the career that I actually want, and the job I have now requires a BA or BS, but I would have gotten the job I want easier if I had gone into the service.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
Coming collapse?

It’s already cratered...they are about worthless.

Free low interest cash and PC stance made them “mediocre”...easy to get for all with lowered standards for “inclusion”

...welcome to another benefit of socialism.

If I was an employer and in charge of hiring online degrees would not count.
If it is a secondary degree. I can see that I guess but full online degrees. Nope.
Complete and utter nonsense.

I find that comment a bit absurd. Let me start by first saying I dont have a single online degree.

To think that someones degree is from an online college is of lesser value than a physical campus is silly. Reminds me of the guy who says letters are the only way to communicate not text messages. You are discounting it due to the medium at which it is obtained yet state colleges everywhere now offer online classes. If a student at xyz university only took online classes would you discount that degree? Or is it because it is a physical college? Both are accredited by the same education board and I can tell you unless the degree is something that is very specialized, they are all worthless.

Back to the OP I think college is worthless now. We are in the age of information, I can find nearly anything online if I cant figure out how to do it. Skills are now commoditized as there is always someone in a 3rd world who will do it for cheaper.

If I were to do it again I would find what I am really into at 18 and internship for 2 years while working a part time job at night. When you consider how much college costs that would be far better.

Think it's hard to make it with a 'worthless' degree?

Try making it in life without one.

The degree is an achievement. One step in a journey. Thinking the degree itself is the single key to a magical life is fallacy. IME - by the time you have 2-4 years work experience all that matters is you have one. Then everything else - rightly so - comes in to play. Work ethic, past performance / impact, professional awards, training courses, etc.

And of course - as we discuss every time - choosing a major is extremely important. Not everyone can be a Math or Chemistry major. But Sociology? Psychology? Communications? That's a problem.

Lastly - unless your family has crazy money - GO TO AN IN-STATE SCHOOL !

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People with college degrees make 3-5 times the money of high school grads over lifetimes. Getting a degree in French feminist studies is stupid. Getting a college degree in general is smart. Don’t go into big debt. Apply your skills in a common sense way and a degree will open doors for you. Generally shitting on a college degree to young people is dumb.

This guy nails it!

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
Think it's hard to make it with a 'worthless' degree?

Try making it in life without one.

The degree is an achievement. One step in a journey. Thinking the degree itself is the single key to a magical life is fallacy. IME - by the time you have 2-4 years work experience all that matters is you have one. Then everything else - rightly so - comes in to play. Work ethic, past performance / impact, professional awards, training courses, etc.

And of course - as we discuss every time - choosing a major is extremely important. Not everyone can be a Math or Chemistry major. But Sociology? Psychology? Communications? That's a problem.

Lastly - unless your family has crazy money - GO TO AN IN-STATE SCHOOL !

--------------------------------

The real value of an education regardless of degree is learning how to think and problem solve. Skills can (and must) be learned and relearned throughout your career.

I know lots of people who are educated far beyond their intelligence.
-Lewis Grizzard

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
Think it's hard to make it with a 'worthless' degree?

Try making it in life without one.



--------------------------------

I have no degree and I make almost three times what my daughter with a Masters degree makes. I learned a skilled trade that is in high demand and with a 40 hour work week I make well into the six figures. If I had the desire to work more than 40 hours I could make much more but I am happy with a 40 hour work week. I posted on Facebook where a local employer is trying to hire for a position lower than mine. They are offering $115,000 a year plus overtime for someone with only 5 years of experience. Not bad for someone without a degree.

I beg to differ. The experience gained at UNCC is what formed me to be the person that I am today. I would never be fluent in German nor would I have ever gone abroad if it weren't for college. I also speak some Chinese. I wouldn't have met my wife or my core group of friends. There is more value to a degree than the job that you get after. The economy tanked in 2008 when I graduated but through my German professor I was able to get my first job. It's all about WHAT degree you have and your personal drive. I graduated with a BS/BA in International Business and also a BA in German.

I was also the first in my family to graduate from a 4 year school other than my Aunt (UNC) on all 3 sides.

Thanks for posting this.

From my experience in working with recent college graduates in the field of education I am continually stunned by the lack of subject knowledge at the most basic levels. For example, I listened to a new educator teaching high school seniors in a government class who had no idea of what the phrase "checks and balances" meant when teaching on the three branches of our government.

How about this one: A history teacher who told a student that they were wrong when the student stated that B.C. and A.D. had something to do with the birth of Christ.

Further, in receiving correspondence from a few of these educators (by no means a majority) I often have no idea as to the purpose of the message nor what in the heck they want me to do. One of these folks has an M.A. from a well-respected private Protestant university who struggled to write a coherent set of instructions for assigned work.

I sat in on a conference in which a high school A.P. U.S. History teacher demonstrated the lack of basic understandings of MLA formatting.

What is most frustrating is that these academically challenged numb skulls are being paid at the same rate (or even at a higher rate) then are educators who are incredibly intelligent and gifted teachers as well as being subject-matter experts.

Silent

It is certainly safe to say that some degrees are valuable while others are not, online or otherwise.

My advice to the youth of today? 4 years active duty in the service then use the GI Bill to pay for college. The military time will give more time for maturing, time away from home, time to travel (I went USN) and time to see what kind of degree might be useful.

As far as online degrees, I expect there are good programs out there where you can really work, learn and get something for your money. Obviously the individual taking the class needs to be motivated and very disciplined.

Exceptional care needs to be taken in selecting the degree area - I taught Metal working (machining, casting and welding) at the college level for a while. My department chair (immediate boss) wanted me to rewrite the program into an “online” program. I told him I wouldn’t do it, as it had to be a hands on type of class.

Finally (and we already know this) picking a degree with applicable skills is important. I met a proud set of parents and their daughter one evening at a nice little pub where I was having supper. The daughter had just recently graduated - with a Masters Degree in Philosophy ...?

.

Very few people I know work in the field that their undergraduate degree is in.

I am close. Finance is the common element in my various business interests.

My brother is a CPA. He was a history major. A college neighbor, an anthropology major, was a Navy and airline pilot.

I agree with the premise of the OP, though. The academic experience is not for everyone. In former times, earning that degree distinguished you from the vast multitudes, proof of skills and attributes, some of which many might have, of course.

Like other things, if everybody has one, there is no distinction, especially if the level of required performance is diluted to accommodate the multitude and take their money. It is another instance of Gresham’s Law.

I agree that some degrees have really lost value - but then again it’s usually because people thought that simply getting a AA or BA was the ticket to a good / great job.

Of course we’ll get the onslaught of blue collars telling us how great they have it, until they hit mid-40s and they are physically broken and wish they could make money in other ways. Especially when people with quality degrees and experience make more in a day when they make in a week.

YMMV.

quote:

To think that someones degree is from an online college is of lesser value than a physical campus is silly. Reminds me of the guy who says letters are the only way to communicate not text messages. You are discounting it due to the medium at which it is obtained yet state colleges everywhere now offer online classes. If a student at xyz university only took online classes would you discount that degree? Or is it because it is a physical college? Both are accredited by the same education board and I can tell you unless the degree is something that is very specialized, they are all worthless.

Online classes have their place but a sole full blown degree.
Where nothing is done but in front of the computer, no personal interaction, no presentations, no practical application, all open book comprehension, no open dialog.

Yup, pretty much worthless. Sure some classes can be done online but there is no way a degree should be fully obtained online. There are so many more parts to the education then regurgitating facts.

Again, online classes and degrees have their place but if I was hiring and you come to me with nothing more than a piece of paper from an online entity, nope.