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| Saluki |
That lesson was learned as a youngster and a generator driven headlight on my bicycle. ----------The weather is here I wish you were beautiful---------- | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
I don't want to hear any Goddamned apologies or excuses or explanations from you. I want you to do what I'm telling you I require from you and that I've told you several times now. You will be POLITE to everyone here at all times. You will stick to the subject at hand and refrain from vague non sequitur comments. You think you're being profound? You're not. Get it? You're not. Stick to the subject, make your comments clear and understood. Address what's being discussed and nothing more than that. Do you really want to be here? Do you really want to be a member of this forum? Let me tell you- if I had opened this thread today and saw no response from you, I would have pulled the trigger. Do you care? If you care, stop wasting my Goddamned time with having to babysit you. And stay the fuck out of this forum when you're drinking. You're mean when you're drunk, man, and I don't want to see the kind of shit I've seen from you in your late night rambles. Am I getting through to you? Don't like what I'm telling you? Then, leave. Behave yourself like everyone else here behaves themselves, or leave. You've used eight of your nine lives, kitty cat. Just give me a reason. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
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| Savor the limelight |
In other words, it’s against the law. | |||
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Spider two-wide banana |
It's easy to lose track of practical considerations when we discuss these "wouldn't it be nice" scenarios. It's easier to understand the difficulty of the problem when you quantify the requirements. I'm trying to expand on snidera's point. The total amount of energy available from 1 square meter of solar light is 1kW. Real solar cells have thermal and electrical losses, so are much less efficient than that, so that number is practically 5-30% if what is available. Let's set that aside, a typical tesla battery stores on the order of 75kWh. If you have a 1 meter square IDEAL solar cell, you will take 75 hours of direct sunlight exposure to charge the battery, and this is neglecting the car's own power system losses from the charger to the cell(it aint 100% either). Getting back to a practical example, cover the whole car with modern solar panel, probably 3 square meters now, but only 30% efficient. We are back to about 1kW of power to charge the giant battery during ideal daytime conditions. A Tesla burns 1kW-hour in about 3 miles. You need a LOT of power to charge an EV, and it's a testament to how cheap electricity still is in this country, that it's very practical. | |||
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Don't Panic |
Better stated...they understand the laws of conservation of energy and of thermodynamics, which will apply to the future as well as they do the past and the current. There's a base amount of energy needed to move masses around, overcome friction, wind resistance, run display screens, play music, provide heat/cooling for the interior, etc., all the things cars do. That needs to be gathered in, stored, and converted to motion. If you want the car itself to do the gathering, you're making the job harder yet, as now the weight of whatever contraption you imagine will be doing that would need to be added into the mix. | |||
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Member |
I’ve had panels on the house since 2014 and a cheap, inexpensive EV leased (later bought from them) during the same time. kWh for the vehicle have been next to nothing. I’ve bought rural land and am designing more elaborate solar system, adding a windmill, inverter, and generator. You could say off the grid, but I will connect to the grid, just to bank kWh credits and help my neighbors out. And I will keep a donkey EV (something very inexpensive and likely upgrading my 12 year old Leaf to the new Slate EV when it comes out since it will have double to triple the range of my old POS) so that necessity driving is essentially free. Making your own power is where a cheap EV makes sense. Fancy/luxury EV’s that cost a lot of money have never made sense to me. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Do the next right thing  |
Solar panels on the roof of an EV would be neat, charging the batteries passively at almost all times. Problem is, the amount of energy hitting the Earth from the sun is about 3 watts per square foot, so at 100% efficiency a solar panel would need to be the size of your house to charge a typical Tesla battery in 8 hours. | |||
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| Green grass and high tides  |
a current tesla battery and a current solar panel. . I get it. But do you think 25 years ago most people thought things possible today would of been possible? I do believe in the goal post being moved. It has been repeated several times in this thread the concept of thermal dynamics, etc. etc. etc. Things are a changing and I do think thinks thought impossible will become possible. "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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Member |
I seem to recall Musk being asked this question. The surface area of the roof/car does not offer enough usable area to power the car. Of course weight is part of it, and adding panels adds weight. I asked ChatGPT about it. Take it for what it is worth.
Steve Small Business Website Design & Maintenance - https://spidercreations.net | OpSpec Training - https://opspectraining.com | Grayguns - https://grayguns.com Evil exists. You can not negotiate with, bribe or placate evil. You're not going to be able to have it sit down with Dr. Phil for an anger management session either. | |||
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thin skin can't win |
You don't seem to be picking up what folks are laying down. How will you modify the SUN to increase it's output?!?! Well, technically our receipt of output. Want something for EV other than sun, like nuclear, hydrogen, etc.? Same math problem of net<100% over the arc of production. Much less. Even approaching your dream will take a completely different technology than electric, or a means of generating it that defies physics. We'll get more efficient no doubt, but no matter what not 100%. You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02 | |||
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| Do the next right thing |
No, I mean at 100% efficiency, the total amount of energy from the sun hitting the earth under perfect conditions is about 3 watts per square foot. That has nothing to do with the panel capturing that energy. Nothing can capture more energy than is being input in to the system. Electric motors may get more efficient, but there are baseline numbers fixed by the laws of physics that cannot be overcome. | |||
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Member |
This is not necessarily technically possible or safe (as I describe it). But perhaps I can be made to be so through different implementations. Question: why does the power source need to be contained w/ the car? Like solar panels. Wouldn't it be acceptable to just have the batteries be replenished quickly and easily? If so, how about something conceptual like gas stations and/or on-road "toll booths" where you drive through and get an instant charge, wireless charge. Like a bolt of tesla lightning unencumbered by amperage limitations of house wires. Anyway, the concept is almost instantaneous transfer of power, convenient, safe and scalable (1 power source for many, not 1:1). Like supplying 1.21 GW to a delorean. Yes, I know the battery is currently limited to how fast it can recharge. But again, technical limitations today. Again, just a conceptual methodology, not a solution. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Member |
I don't know what the future holds, but right now it's not possible with the realities we currently contend with. If we suspend those for the sake of the discussion though, literally anything you can imagine is possible. It's possible that they will nail down long range energy transmission eliminating batteries and charging completely. It's possible we'll have some kind of new propulsion that will eliminate the need for any kind of engine/ motor on the vehicle itself. It's possible someone will figure out Star Trek style transporters, eliminating the need for vehicles completely. You'll step out your front door and be at your destination. "The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford, "it is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards." "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in." | |||
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| Green grass and high tides |
Right! but before we achieve some of those things. A self charging or no charge ev seems likely sooner than later.  "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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| Member |
My wife has a Mazda CX90 plug-in hybrid. It has a small 17kWh rechargeable battery. The battery assists with providing power along with the engine. Fully charged the battery will drain in about 25 miles and takes about 12-14 hrs to charge using a standard 20 amp 110 outlet. It really puts the power in to power out ratio in perspective. | |||
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Void Where Prohibited |
We'll have unlimited power once they figure out how to harness element 115 like the aliens do ...  "If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards | |||
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| Member |
Nope. Read all the comments on this thread from folks that understand physics, energy efficiencies, mechanical efficiencies, electrical systems, solar & wind systems. Perpetual motion only worked with Wile. E. Coyote cartoons, with his excellent Acme products. | |||
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| Do the next right thing |
The limitation is not technology. The limitation is physics. | |||
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| Member |
Here's an idea: we run overhead power lines with a tether connected to the vehicle to power the electric motor, or install power strips in the road that the car contacts as it drives over them. | |||
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