SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge NY Times isn’t just trying to destroy Trump, now they’ve set their sights on SeALs and BUDS
Main Page The Lounge NY Times isn’t just trying to destroy Trump, now they’ve set their sights on SeALs and BUDSPage 1 2
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
Agreed - the NYT should do better, and has the tools, but often fails. They make it hard to look at their work without being very jaded. But . . . The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Member |
Here’s why. The NYT is no more qualified to vet the training standards of Navy SEAL’s as I am to pilot a space shuttle. They shout out how dangerous and extreme the training is and then almost as a side note add that this guy was self medicating PED’s. Which was a huge factor in his death. You don’t want to alter the training regimen of one of our success stories. This isn’t the place to bring change. The system works and yes people die. That’s happens in the military. It’s not a board room. | |||
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Member |
Absolutely 100% agree. I think both sides in this article have some valid points. For those that say that “cheating” is good because it shows the candidates’ adaptability in poor situations, I’d also argue that a SEAL letting themselves get into some of these positions would show signs of poor performance as well. At the end of the day I applaud the ability of BUD/S to weed out the non hackers and show candidates that they have the ability to go so much farther than they believe they can go. However there is a point where such training becomes hazing and stops serving a useful training purpose. It seems to me like the training value is lost when a candidate is pushed to the point of a severe pulmonary edema to the point that they need advanced medical intervention. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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| Member |
The increasing attrition rates may be of concern. Anecdotes like those in the article are good human interest items, but data is king, especially when you have a training program that has run continuously for so long. Why has the attention rate reached 89%? Is the course the same level of difficulty but the candidates are weaker? Is the course harder and the candidates are the same? Is the course harder and the candidates weaker? I have no military experience, let alone anything on this level, but I do have a decent amount of experience in training programs. A common issue is having your trainers expect performance that they are capable of from somebody who is not. It would be vital in a program like this to make sure that the candidates were extremely challenged, but barring some objective reasoning, that the standards were not being increased to a point where the system breaks down. | |||
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Official Space Nerd |
I don't know the specifics here, but it is not unheard of for recruits to enter the military with undisclosed health issues. Perhaps the recruits lie or fail to disclose info for fear that they couldn't make it if the miliyary knew about the condition(s). Perhaps the recruit did not know about the condition(s). I have heard of both examples. . . Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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| Member |
The harshest training for the USAF is in the Pararescue and Combat Controller career fields. I saw Pararescue trainees jogging from class to class carrying telephone poles. In Texas heat. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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| Member |
You have to ask what the impact of taking PED’s is regarding pulmonary edema. If he was drug free would he be able to push that far? The drug use seems to be a huge factor in this. I think the higher attrition isn’t even close to surprising. Have you seen the average young man lately? Our country still produces some of the finest young men on the planet. It also produces a lot weaker. Shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. | |||
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| Member |
Drug usage, while rare, is not uncommon amongst pre-BUDS candidates and sometimes during BUDS. Creatine is pretty common, along with other performance enhancers; HGH is seen more with guys that are already in the units. Most of those guys get caught, medical issues usually crop-up or, they have some other injury and during assesment checks during training its discovered they've got some 'other substances' in them. NYT is attempting to make this a bigger story than what it is; they have no idea whom they're barking at. All the SOF training pipelines are pretty well fleshed-out with a variety medical studies and evaluations throughout the pipeline. Of all the SOF selection and training pipelines, BUDS arguably has the largest amount of medical data complied. | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
Only an idiot would take HGH. I knew some fellows who used small amounts to try to stay competitive over 40, but it’s very dangerous. T is of no use, below 25. I never heard of anyone having a pulmonary edema from it. There’s something I’ve forgotten the name of, which increase the amount of red blood cells in the blood - cyclists used it. It was well known to be very dangerous. Creatine is worthless, if trained. Nor could I see anyway it would help in endurance activities. Creatine is the fuel source for anaerobic activities, before going into the lactic acidosis cycle. Ingesting it doesn’t do anything. | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
Erythropoietin Q | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge NY Times isn’t just trying to destroy Trump, now they’ve set their sights on SeALs and BUDS
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