Moved into a new construction home almost a year ago. During the inspection/walk-thru process it was revealed that the developer had plumbed the neighborhood for gas, but opted not to connect due to cost. As a result, half the homes out here have gas logs that require use of a separate bottle outside to feed them (dumb). My plan before knowing this was to bring gas to the kitchen so I could have a gas range (I hate an electric stove top). Anyhow, that's all for naught at this point.

Wondering what it would take to add an external tank and piping to get propane to the kitchen. Range is on an exterior wall so getting inside shouldn't be much of a problem. Also, if I'm going to go this far do I go ahead and have it run to the fireplace and potentially water heater (would love a tankless unit). Doubt we'd use the fireplace much as it's a vent-less and I've had horrible experiences with them in the past, but for the sake of resale and the fact that the inlet is already there might be an option.

Don't know what the requirements are for tanks and distance from a structure, nor what size I'd be looking at the run the items mentioned. Anybody have any experience or thoughts?

Edited to add: I do understand the difference in buying vs. renting a tank and what that means for who I buy the propane from.

I think that you would not love buying propane to heat water. Unless its cheaper in your area that here, anyway. I use propane for oven and dryer, and fill my 100lb bottle every 2 or 3 months. My brothers house has a propane tankless water heater, which he figures costs him $400 per month.

If the neighborhood is plumbed for gas, it's more likely natural gas than propane.
That's good news as propane is more expensive than natural gas.
My first call would be to the gas company to see what they would charge to bring the gas line to the house. If that number works then call a plumber or HVAC to find out what the inside part costs.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
I f the neighborhood is plumbed for gas, it's more likely natural gas than propane.
That's good news as propane is more expensive than natural gas.
My first call would be to the gas company to see what they would charge to bring the gas line to the house. If that number works then call a plumber or HVAC to find out what the inside part costs.

Pipes are at the street, but the main connection for the neighborhood itself isn't hooked up. So while I could connect to the main in front of the house, there's nothing feeding it. Thus my dilemma...

quote:

Originally posted by SigM4:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
I f the neighborhood is plumbed for gas, it's more likely natural gas than propane.
That's good news as propane is more expensive than natural gas.
My first call would be to the gas company to see what they would charge to bring the gas line to the house. If that number works then call a plumber or HVAC to find out what the inside part costs.

Pipes are at the street, but the main connection for the neighborhood itself isn't hooked up. So while I could connect to the main in front of the house, there's nothing feeding it. Thus my dilemma...

still call the gas company, much easier than dicking with propane. Talk to your neighbors & if they are wanting gas as well, it will help convince the gas company they should pony up.

Please clarify-
When you say that the builder plumbed for gas, b ut never hooked it up, do you mean that your house is plumbed for natural gas? As in, there is piping already in place to service one or more applications that can typically run off of gas, such as furnace, water heater, dryer, stove, etc?

If there is NG in the street, pay to have it brought into the home. Much cheaper in the long run.

Propane tanks can sit next to a home on a pad, or be buried. Your town ordnances will govern that. Piping in the home isn't too bad generally. NG and propane have different valve requirements in many appliances, even the fake logs. Some it's swapping parts, some it might be a new unit.

Sorry guys, didn't realize it was that confusing, I'll clarify.

The neighborhood developer (built streets, sewers, water, electric) piped the neighborhood for gas. He then sold lots to the individual builders to build houses. After the gas network was in place it was determined to be too pricey to bring gas to the neighborhood, my understanding is that the nearest gas line is something like 1/4-1/2 mile away. Thus, we have a network of pipes buried in the neighborhood that could be used to feed the homes, but it has no connection to the main feed for the area. So pipes at the street, but no NG. Our individual builder was in the process of plumbing the house for gas, but when it was revealed that it wouldn't happen, switched over the electric. The only outlier being the fireplace that was already plumbed; the side of the house has an inlet which would typically be for the NG meter, but instead it has a connection for a propane bottle to feed the fireplace.

So at this point the options are either to get the entire neighborhood connected to gas (which I'm sure is outside of my pocketbook's ability to pay) or install a propane setup to feed a freestanding range/cooktop. I guess the third is to stick with electric which I hate.

The NG line on my street ends about 500-1000' from my house. I was told by the gas company that it would cost $10k to bring the line down the street.

That being said, contact the gas company and find out. If the subdivision is big enough they might just do it.

I'd see if neighbors are interested, and perhaps would chip in. Then weigh the cost against how many years of service, then look at the rates between NG/propane and your utility load.

Consider also the value added when selling, some day.

Your fireplace if purchased for natural gas use will at the minimum require a smaller orrifice.

I’d think twice before using propane for the water. The danged stuff is subject to wild price fluctuations. Do some research with the local propane company at bare minimum.

Gas range would be similar to the gas log, with the exception of your purchasing new. You must specify the propane fuel source. If there is a kit to convert to or from natural gas retain it so you can resell to anyone, or swap with minimum difficulty if natural gas becomes available.

Typically the propane company will run the copper, hook things up, and provide the tank. We did all that anyway, not for free but fairly cheaply.

100# bottles require more owner participation in my experience. See about a “pig” a 200 gallon tank that would probably last a year or so. Might be overkill, but running the gas log and water heater would not wear you out chasing bottles. Stove only, bottles wouldn’t be a big deal.

Ask for Hank at the propane supply company, they love that shit.

quote:

Originally posted by tenmm:
I think that you would not love buying propane to heat water. Unless its cheaper in your area that here, anyway. I use propane for oven and dryer, and fill my 100lb bottle every 2 or 3 months. My brothers house has a propane tankless water heater, which he figures costs him $400 per month.

I spend about $400 per year on propane. Buying in the summer, or "pre"buying (don't know if that's available in other areas), the cost is pretty reasonable.

I use propane for my tankless water heater in the house, furnace (rarely used as I have a woodstove as my primary heat) and my stove/oven.

I have a 500 sitting about 10 feet from the side of the house with the piping going into and through the crawl space. Several years back, when I put in the stove/oven, the gas guy came out and spliced in a line to the kitchen easy-peasy.

500 gets me through the year without a problem now. When I had the propane tank style water heater it was costing me an arm and a leg to keep the water heated continually. Since I've put in the tankless, it's dirt cheap.

If you do end up using propane, get a tank large enough that you can fill up once a year, in the summer.
You need to own your tank too so you aren't stuck with one provider. They will build the price of propane into the gallon price anyway so it costs a lot more in the long run.
Rates are normally much lower during summer months. My local provider runs a sale July-August each year.
Depending on the year, I've paid just over a dollar a gallon to over five dollars in colder winters and short supplies.
Trust me, natural gas is going to be much less expensive in the long run.

SigM4,

I think you have identified your two options. If propane tank is connected to your home, you can feed range, fireplace, and patio grill. I would imagine that the HOA (if one exists) would require any tank to be surrounded by privacy screen.

An electric range is safer, in my view. I am tempted to change from gas to electric with a LG convection oven and solid cooktop, when we redo the kitchen.

Well we are alike in that we hate cooking on electric. We had a 500 gallon tank installed, filled and piping run to the kitchen from the new gas range. We also added a gas access point on the deck to feed my 36 Blackstone griddle plus a feed to what was going to be my shop, another 30' feet away.

Additionally we have a 20kw whole house generator set that was existing ( the reason for 500 gallon tank). All of that was accomplished for $750. Most of that expense was for the propane fill.

We also recently added a Rannai on demand hot water system, with almost no gas related expense, the feed line was less than 10' away.

I hope if work out for you, we love ours!!

SigM4. You will receive the most BTU's from Oil, less with Propane and even less with NG. Propane tanks, depending on their size can either be directly next to a home [100# (24gals)]. or 120 (96gals) which up to 4 can be pigtailed together. Still they must be 10' from a source of combustion or 3' from a window or door. A 320 or 500 gallon tank must be 10' from your home. Most companies will set an above ground tank for little to no charge. You will be charged a rental fee if you do not use the tank capacity in a 12 month time frame. Tanks have experation dates and unless you are a heavy user Id let the Company maintain ownership. If you do own the tank(s) you will receive a lower per gallon price, yet the cost of a 120 is around $700. and a 500 gallon upwards of 2k. Underground tanks also have other expenses, excavating, anode bag(s), etc. You also will have to purchase the regulators. Just more cost and maintainance for you. As far as purchasing propane, The best time to buy is June to August. Prices are lowest and you can normally lock-in until May at that time. I do not recommend prebuys, as you will save .10 or so a gallon, if you run into an extremly cold winter or under buy you will be stuck paying the daily price at that time. A normal (residential) cook stove will use appro. 40 gals of propane a year. A fireplace could be 200. On demand are the way to assuming your water quality is very good. If you have hard water for example a Rinnai will have to be cleaned every 6 mos. or so. Just like arteries they will clog. On demands are very efficient and your propane usage is much less than atanked unit. Usage will depend on # of family members, bathrooms, etc. If I missed it, a propane fed dryer is definetly the way to go compared to electric. Faster drying and much less than electric. ( 30gals/yr est.) I would highly recommend you contact your local propane co. and have someone come out give you an estimate on cost. He will speak of codes, tank placements, line sizing, flex lines, safety, etc. Lastly, propane pricing depends on usage. If you have only a cookstove, you will be paying a far greater price per gallon than a whole home propane user ( heat, hot water, cooking, dryer, etc) ie: cooking only $4.99 / gal compared to $1.79/gal. I also woukd look for a full service Company who can do cleanings and maintainance. I dont jump around with companies and have a good relationship as they are more apt to help me sooner than a shopper. Another thing, in times of shortages and when surplus is tight, a company may not be able to fill you dead winter as they have allocated their purchased gallons to customers and not shoppers who search for the best price on any given month. I am gas certified and sold propane/oil for 7 years. I hope this helped! regards, sigguy(the 1st)

SigM4, you have email, sir!

Live in boonies and installed my own system (I did everything but set the tank and connect the line to it) about 4 years ago. If you want to talk one on one with someone who has done exactly what you are talking about shoot me an email, address is in profile.