According to numerous news reports, he didn't have a license, because it was suspended or revoked. Of course this begs the question: Then what was he reaching for?

Ultimately, it doesn't matter because cases like this are determined by the officer's perceptions and whether or not (based upon those perceptions) the use of deadly force was reasonable. If cops were judged upon what was discovered later and not what they experienced at the time of the incident, who'd take the damn job without being a psychic or at least having the benefit of a crystal ball that enabled him/her to see into the future. Fortunately, after years of case decisions leading to this bit of uncommonly common sense decision by SCOTUS, there's Graham v Connor. It may not be liked, but it is applicable:

http://www.policemag.com/chann...graham-v-connor.aspx

How the fuck was that a trial?

I must be watching a different video from the guys here and on the news who can definitively label this a bad shooting. I cant say that it is or isnt a bad shoot, but I can say that the deceased decided to ignore the officer and was subsequently shot. I can say (as a police officer myself) that not everybody that goes and gets a carry permit is an upstanding citizen. I have arrested dozens of licensed individuals who are carrying guns while dealing heroin, cocaine, stealing cars, shooting at their husband because he was talking to another woman, etc.

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Originally posted by pulicords:
According to numerous news reports, he didn't have a license, because it was suspended or revoked. Of course this begs the question: Then what was he reaching for?

The evidence photos show a DL in his wallet. Not sure if it was valid.

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Originally posted by rusbro:
but Castile should have understood the gravity of the situation and been more in tune to what was happening and what the officer was thinking.

Which is really hard to do when you're high.

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
but Castile should have understood the gravity of the situation and been more in tune to what was happening and what the officer was thinking.

Which is really hard to do when you're high.

The problem is much greater than that, has nothing to do with drugs. The problem is the systemic poor attitude of his "culture" towards authority.

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Originally posted by chongosuerte:
How the fuck was that a trial?

Look at the time period that it occurred in for your answer.

I find it best to listen real good when a cop tells you to do something & to do what he says real quick. A yes sir helps too.

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Originally posted by parabellum:The problem is much greater than that, has nothing to do with drugs. The problem is the systemic poor attitude of his "culture" towards authority.

Listening to his filthy mouthed mother's rant, I have no doubt he was raised in a fine household that stressed civic responsibility.

Having a "girlfriend" prone to bashing people's heads with hammers also says something about one's character.

Combine a "This is bullshit" attitude with some confusion from weed and trouble ensues.

Of course I wasn't at the trial, I only watched the video; but it did seem to me that the officer was too quick to shoot.

The victim informed the officer that he had a weapon (and a permit) and then started reaching for something....which plausibly could be his wallet/license.

He does ignore (stupidity ?) the officers instruction to "Not reach for it"....but the "it" in the victim's mind was probably the gun. He was not reaching for "it". He was {plausibly) reaching for a wallet.

So, the officer was probably very justifiably "on high alert", but I saw no reason to actually pull the trigger.

Stupidity in following an officer's ambiguous instructions should not be a death sentence (unless he actually was pulling out his gun ?) Was that ever established ?

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Stupidity in following an officer's ambiguous instructions should not be a death sentence (unless he actually was pulling out his gun ?) Was that ever established ?

His gun was found in his front pants pocket. Living in Minnesota, I have closely followed this case; as a long time permit holder (15+ years) it has greatly disappointed me. Bottom line, the officer panicked.

Castile was following two sets of orders, get his wallet and don't touch his gun. Everything about the pain-in-the-ass his sister, mom, etc are all non-factors, because at the time, the officer did not know any of this.

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Originally posted by Crom:Stupidity in following an officer's ambiguous instructions should not be a death sentence (unless he actually was pulling out his gun ?) Was that ever established ?

In hindsight, I don't think he was pulling the gun. It was recovered with an empty chamber. It's hard to believe he was actually trying to draw down on an officer knowing his own pistol would need to be racked.

Of course, the officer didn't know that.

I have the feeling that Jeronimo Yanez was glad to be relieved from that line of work. Now he only needs to find some other one.

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Yeah, the officer should have waited for the dude to shoot first.

I would have settled for waiting to see him draw it. Since the gun was in the deceased's pocket, the officer never even saw a gun.

The mere presence of a firearm does not a life or death situation make. Were that the case, officers would be shooting each other at roll call.

Is waiting a few seconds more dangerous? Absolutely. But look at some of the trouble it would save.

I support the officer and his actions. It's really easy to be an armchair quarterback when it's not your ass on the line.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:Is waiting a few seconds more dangerous? Absolutely. But look at some of the trouble it would save.

There was some discussion of the private training the officer had taken. It sounds like he attended at least one that emphasized(over emphasized?) cases in which hesitation led to getting shot. I'd imagine that will come up again in the civil suit.

I was pulled over in downtown Miami a couple years ago (Overtown area - the hood), looked like one of the officers in the car were in training.

They had me exit my vehicle, standard "Drugs, weapons, etc." question came.

When I answered in the affirmative and the tension immediately jumped 100% I was very glad to know that I was standing in front of them, cooperating, with my hands in plain sight at all times. They called in backup who took my CCW and called it in.

The Castile incident definitely escalated way quicker than I would've been ready for.

Seeing the video on the news, and the previous video streamed out by the girlfriend, one thing is obvious. The officer panicked at the thought of the presence of the gun. He was not rationally assessing the risk and deciding how to respond. He heard "firearm" (which is what I think the deceased said), saw him move in a way that alarmed him, and flew into a panic. You can hear it in his voice.

This means two things to me. His motive for the shooting was unquestionably fear. So from a legal standpoint, that would tend to be exculpatory. One can question if his fear factor should have been so high. But fear was unquestionably the driving factor.

The second thing is that, his screening and training should have dealt with this, either training him to deal rationally with high stress situation, or he should have never been allowed to be a cop if he couldn't deal rationally with that level of stress.

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Originally posted by Ronin1069:

quote:

Stupidity in following an officer's ambiguous instructions should not be a death sentence (unless he actually was pulling out his gun ?) Was that ever established ?

His gun was found in his front pants pocket. Living in Minnesota, I have closely followed this case; as a long time permit holder (15+ years) it has greatly disappointed me. Bottom line, the officer panicked.

Question - is it a legal requirement to inform the officer you are carrying when you have a permit?

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Originally posted by AirmanJeff:Question - is it a legal requirement to inform the officer you are carrying when you have a permit?

No