Oh, the irony!

http://www.virginiafirst.com/n...-your-junk/808921112

LONDON (CNNMoney) - For decades, shipping containers have been loaded with American scrap and waste and dispatched to China for recycling.

It's a $5 billion annual business that is now in danger of sinking.

Beijing notified the World Trade Organization in July that it plans to ban the import of 24 varieties of solid waste, including types of plastic and unsorted paper commonly sent from the U.S.

China said that the ban would take effect from September, giving American companies little time to prepare. ISRI estimates that roughly a fifth of the trade is at risk.

The announcement has made U.S. recyclers that trade with China very nervous.

"In the short term we're going to see a significant drop of exports from the U.S. into China, and there is a little bit of panic in the market," said Adina Adler, an official at the U.S. Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries (ISRI).

"We respect what the Chinese government is trying to do ... and we want to be helpful, but they gave us practically no time for any kind of transition," said Adler.

Trade deficit
Scrap and waste is the sixth largest U.S. export to China.

The trade works like this: A huge number of container ships laden with consumer goods sail each year from China to American ports.

But the U.S. runs a massive trade deficit with China, and there is little demand for space on the return leg, or "backhaul." As a result, shipping companies offer major discounts on return runs to China.

The dynamic has been a boon for the U.S. recycling industry, which has an abundance of the scrap metal, paper, plastic, rubber and electronics that Chinese recyclers crave.

Adam Minter, a journalist, explains in the book "Junkyard Planet" that it can be much cheaper to ship scrap from the U.S. to China than to send it by rail from Los Angeles to Chicago.

Exports at risk
Beijing says it's now banning some of the scrap categories out of concern for the environment.

The government told the WTO that it had found large amounts of dirty and hazardous material mixed with solid waste, leading to serious environmental pollution.

China's State Council said in a statement that it hoped to "reform ... the management system of solid waste imports, promote the recycling use of domestic solid wastes, protect the ecological environment and people's health."

Minter, however, has argued that the ban could exacerbate environmental problems.

He wrote in July that imported recyclables are cleaner than their Chinese counterparts, and banning them will force many Chinese recyclers to shut down -- meaning more waste will be incinerated or end up in landfills.

The policy shift has sparked confusion in the industry, with American producers uncertain about when it will be implemented.

"The confusion it causes does as much damage to our markets as the policies themselves," said Kevin Duncombe, president of independent recycler Western Pacific Pulp and Paper.

Adler said the ban has already impacted trade with China.

"Chinese buyers are canceling orders, or not placing new ones, and in some cases they're just not picking up shipments at the port," she said.

The Chinese Ministry of Environmental Protection did not respond to requests for additional details.

ISRI said it intends to fight the ban.

"China has an environmental crisis on their handsm and they need to do something about it, but we don't agree on imposing an outright ban," said Adler. "That's not the answer."

Oh, the (cheap) irony.

Just send pictures of your junk.

If more crap ends up having to be processed here instead of being returned back to PRC, I wonder if policies will change here that will require a higher quality bar for incoming crap from PRC. Higher quality, less disposable crap, less crap to process?

Oh, how I miss good made in USA, Japan, Germany products.

Wonder what % is Chinese origin in the first place.

I have a friend that is a literal millionaire now from recycling. He goes to absolute shit holes (iran, etc) and fills containers with used catalytic converters to bring back to the US to recycle. Makes a killing, but spends time in india, iran, etc. The last time I saw him he took a pelican case out of his Lexus LFA to give me a deposit.. I shit you not, a bag of diamonds fell out

U.S. to China: You first.

Actually- We contracted with a company to recycle our scrap domestically in the USA. We tagged some monitors and found they went to china for recycling.

You want to do the right thing and be environmentally responsible? Recycle that stuff right here in America.

China sends us junk and we send them junk.

I don't see a problem.

Since when did china give a shit about the environment?

quote:

Originally posted by cmr076:
He goes to absolute shit holes (iran, etc) and fills containers with used catalytic converters to bring back to the US to recycle.

Iran and other 3rd world shit holes use catalytic converters in their cars? You must be mistaken.

Isn't junk a Chinese boat?

Sounds like they are trying to leverage where they think it will hurt- as we don't have "room" for all our own crap.

I move we ban all Chinese imports to balance the flow of junk.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Just send pictures of your junk.

Their Junk is really small....

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:
Actually- We contracted with a company to recycle our scrap domestically in the USA. We tagged some monitors and found they went to china for recycling.

You want to do the right thing and be environmentally responsible? Recycle that stuff right here in America.

Is that the case though? I mean if the ships have to go back China anyway, wouldn't the environmental thing to do be to not send them back completely empty? The ships are going that way anyway. It seems more environmental than contracting a train to haul it somewhere for recycling.

quote:

...Beijing says it's now banning some of the scrap categories out of concern for the environment.

The government told the WTO that it had found large amounts of dirty and hazardous material mixed with solid waste, leading to serious environmental pollution.

China's State Council said in a statement that it hoped to "reform ... the management system of solid waste imports, promote the recycling use of domestic solid wastes, protect the ecological environment and people's health."...

Environmental and health concerns? Riiight...

It is amazing to me that waste can be profitably shipped overseas for recycling. I don't mean expensive waste like catalytic convertors, I mean stuff like paper, plastic, and scrap steel.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Just send pictures of your junk.

Their Junk is really small....

Then "Sum ting wong".

^^^I was amazed when delivering for one of the major foodservice companies how much of our food comes from that waste factory...

It's cheaper to grow broccoli in China, freeze, ship, distribute here than to grow and distribute here.

It was a real eye-opener, seeing "produced in/ made in/ grown in/ product of" China on everything.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:
Since when did china give a shit about the environment?

They don't. This is tit for tat for Trump's efforts to reverse the trade imbalance.

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
I mean if the ships have to go back to China anyway, wouldn't the environmental thing to do be to not send them back completely empty?

Ah, but think about that for a second, and why that makes sense.

Ships are arriving in the US with Chinese goods that are sold more cheaply than US goods.

Because ships are expected to go back to pick up more cheap Chinese goods for delivery in the US, economics dictates that they have some kind of cargo for the trip back.

If shipping companies can't defray some of their costs by picking up cargoes for the return trip to China, they have to go back empty.

If the ships have to go back empty, the shipping companies have to make enough profit from shipping cheap Chinese goods to the US to make up for making no profit from the trips back to China.

Shipping companies will therefore have to raise their shipping charges for goods going from China to the US.

Chinese goods will therefore not be as cheap when they are sold in the US.

Chinese goods will therefore not be as competitive in US markets.

The Chinese efforts to embarrass and punish us by refusing to recycle our junk will therefore reduce Chinese trade and force the price of Chinese goods higher on the market.

The Chinese are therefore at least potentially killing the US goose that's laid so many golden eggs for them in the past. They will also, incidentally, reduce outflows of dollars to China and reduce China's influence in the US. After all, if no one is making money off of selling cheap Chinese goods in the US, what constituency does China have here? Debtors? Debtors aren't going to push to have the US put pressure on themselves so that Chinese can collect on what they're owed.

Now let's look at the environment.

If all of this shipping isn't happening then we burn less fossil fuel crossing the Pacific and we burn less fuel stuff by rail and highway all the way across the country from our Pacific ports to the Northeastern US where the biggest chunk of our consumers live.

A big chunk of what China recycles and resells is steel and plastics. We know how to recycle them, and (unlike recycled newsprint), there's actually a market for those now-raw materials.

Chinese environmental controls are lax beyond US conception. If there's less production there, then there's emissions-intensive, toxic waste generating production in the world, period. (And, incidentally, if there's less recycling in China, maybe we could get Trump to loosen up the nightmare of regulations that strangles the recycling industry - especially in steel! - in the US.)