I had one rip my face off.

quote:

Originally posted by L90814:

quote:

Originally posted by walker77:
I don't understand why anyone would keep pit bulls.

I too once felt this way. I was a solid German Shepherd lover. Then, my ex demanded we keep a pit bull puppy her niece gave her, over my objection. It turned out to be the best dog I ever had. Since that one, I've had several that were adopted from rescues and Humane Society, most who had been abused. Each has had an amazing personality, with love, loyalty and sense of humor. Pit bulls are the only breed I will have for the rest of my life.

Irresponsible owners who let their dogs continue to roam free and build on their prey drive deserve to be punished.

That's kinda my story, too. We always had shepherds and I never understood why anyone would want a pitt. But Pitts seem to be the predominant breed with irresponsible trailer trash, and so the humane societies are full up with them. When I went there looking for a puppy the last time, they'd just gotten a litter of pups, and one of them came home with me. Moose is 1/4 Pitt, and he's the most affectionate dog we've ever had. He just loves attention, will crawl up on your lap, and he sleeps in our bed. Our little nephews will mess with him and he still just adores them (I mean hey, they drop food!). And while he'll act all mean and tough when he's safe in the house and bark at anything that moves in the front yard, when we're out on a walk I've had aggressive dogs come at us before and he hides behind me (not appreciated, lol).

I've worked quite a few dog bite cases at work. Only one of them was a pitt, and that wasn't even a person that it attacked, it was another dog. The owner allowed it to get loose and it went after some lady's little fru fru dog and tore the crap out of it. She couldn't get it off, and some neighbor guys came running and physically beat the crap out of that Pitt trying to get it to let go, and it finally did, but it took a lot of beating to make it happen. Even with them whaling on it, it never once attacked them, it just wanted that dog. When I got there they had it on a leash and it was just sitting there with it's tongue hanging out happy as could be, and jumped right up in my car for a ride to doggy jail. That was a pretty rough case though...it did a real number on that smaller dog.

I've had shepherds, labs, doodles, and a cane corso in recent memory all bite people. The most recent one was a pair of Aussies that attacked a biker, and I was afraid I was going to have to shoot them because they were trying really hard to get at me through the door (which they'd already breached once to go after the biker) but thankfully they stayed contained and it didn't come to that. Like Para I'd be sick if I ever had to shoot a dog, but I'm also not going to stand there and get mauled.

I'm usually pretty good at handling dogs...be confident and don't show fear and typically they'll submit or at least leave you alone. I get calls all the time about "aggressive dogs" running loose in the neighborhoods, and more often than not I get there, put the leash on, and they hop up in the car for a ride after a few pets. It always cracks me up a little to be standing in the front yard petting a dog while the caller cowers inside their house looking out the window or peeks their head through the crack in the door to talk to me, lol. The only time I've ever been bitten at work was by a Chihuahua, and I just booted that thing across the porch. Those little overgrown rats have more bad temperament than any Pitt I've ever met, but nobody cares about them because they don't have the muscle to back it up.

A) I think a lot of mutts are labeled pits.

B) Yes, there’s some issues in pit genetics. It’s a shame, because “good” pits are just amazing dogs.

quote:

Originally posted by walker77:
I don't understand why anyone would keep pit bulls.

There’s always gotta be a boogydog. When I was growing up in the 50’s it was German Shepherds. 70’s it was Dobermans. Now it’s Pits.

I’ve had Shepherds, Beagles, mutts, Chihuahua Terriers, a Springer, two Labradors, and since 2003 two Pit/American Staffordshire crosses and one full Staffy. The worst one of that whole group was one of the Labrador’s, 110 pounds of psycho. He was loyal and a good protector of the house but just went off the deep end at times. There were problems in out neighborhood but none at our house, he was known by the little s***heads as “the crazy dog”. One of my late friends, a true 1%er and Vietnam veteran tunnel rat, nothing scared that guy. He admitted that that dog made him uneasy.

It’s how they are “wired at the factory” like some people and how they are raised and what they are exposed to. Our one year old grandson interacts with our Pitty on a daily basis, I trust her around him totally.

Just a quick compilation, only took a few minutes. For some reason, even though other breeds are much more popular with families and children, I can’t seem to compile a similar list with golden retrievers…

Jacob Busbee (2) — California, 2010 — killed by his step-grandfather's pit bulls.

Nathan Aguirre (2) — California, 2010 — killed by the family's pit bull.

Savannah Gragg (9) — Indiana, 2010 — killed by the family's pit bull.

KJ Ham (newborn) — Florida, 2010 — killed by the family's pit bull.

Daxton "Dax" Borchardt (14 months) — Wisconsin, 2013 — killed by a pit bull owned by family friends with whom he was staying.

Mia Derouen (4) — Louisiana, 2014 — killed by a pit bull belonging to the household.

A.J. Freund (not applicable; often mistakenly cited in online lists, but not a pit bull fatality case) — should be excluded.

John "JR" Weems (9 months) — Ohio, 2015 — killed by the family's pit bull.

Elyse Hernandez (3 days old) — Ohio, 2016 — killed by the family pit bull.

Kara Hartrich (1 week old) — Virginia, 2017 — killed by the family's pit bull.

Jace Dozer (4) — Ohio, 2018 — killed by a family pit bull.

Ki'Yair Thomas (1) — Ohio, 2019 — killed by the family's pit bull.

Rhylee Jo Calderon (3 months) — New Jersey, 2020 — killed by the family's pit bull.

Ezra Tschudin (7 months) — Ohio, 2023 — killed by the family's pit bull.

Jiryiah Johnson (1) — Texas, 2024 — killed by pit bulls kept at the residence.

Lilly Jane and Hollace Jane Bennard (5 months and 2 years old) — Tennessee, 2022 — both children were killed by the family's two pit bulls after the dogs had lived with the family for years.


I adore dogs - this breed has no place on this planet.

Heartbreaking. It's not just the "dangerous breeds".

Neighbor with a 60lb mixed breed that went for my Wife and her dog last night on our back porch. I was coming out the back door and got between them and hands on the dog. It ran.

Neighbor ran into my yard cussing at me. "It's a good dog wouldn't hurt anyone." Typical bullshit. Called law enforcement. It's going to be a fucking mess.

There seems to be an arms race to have the biggest, meanest dog. Even pitbulls are being replaced by bigger, more aggressive breeds. The real problem is that people don't control their animals! They don't see these massive beasts as a credible threat to others. When you have multiple large aggressive animals and don't recognize their capacity for violence a tragedy of some sort is almost inevitable.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It's the breed and the owner. Most pit bulls don't attack people, but the wrong kind of owner lets their base instincts flourish, and then we have stuff like this tragic story.

This.

And if the dog’s instict and drive is stronger than the owner’s, the dog(s) will win.

It applies to all breeds however, the pit bull’s instinct is to attack and strength of its jaws adds a whole new factor to the equation.

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
The real problem is that people don't control their animals!

That’s the alpha and omega of the issue.

Control means effectively confining them at one’s residence so they can’t get out, and having them leashed everywhere else plus the physical ability to control their behavior. Many owners are willfully blind to their charges’ actions and deflect the blame onto their victims.

My county has a leash law, but I still remember when a former state representative was allowing his young, untrained dog to run free in an area where I was working. The dog approached and jumped up on me. I didn’t perceive it as a threat, but despite never saying a word to the man my body language made it clear that I didn’t appreciate having an animal’s dirty feet on my clothing. And as a result of my demonstrated disapproval, what did the man do? Called my agency to complain that I was a “jerk” for not accepting that his and his dog’s actions were perfectly acceptable.

I was once approached aggressively by a lab while walking on a public road and the owner’s excuse? “She doesn’t like sticks,” referring to the hiking staff I was carrying.

I could go on with many other examples, but if anyone thinks it’s unfair to call for things like “banning” certain breeds, they should first ask themselves why such proposals are made.

I think I read that the dog that bites the most is the Dachshund, and I absolutely love the little knuckleheads. But I have yet to hear of one killing a human.

quote:

Originally posted by Loaded Round:
Heartbreaking. It's not just the "dangerous breeds".

Neighbor with a 60lb mixed breed that went for my Wife and her dog last night on our back porch. I was coming out the back door and got between them and hands on the dog. It ran.

Neighbor ran into my yard cussing at me. "It's a good dog wouldn't hurt anyone." Typical bullshit. Called law enforcement. It's going to be a fucking mess.

I've never understood that attitude. When my dog was younger he'd occasionally take the opportunity to bolt through an open door whenever her got that chance, which would result in a 20 minute, very annoying and somewhat dangerous game of chase around the neighborhood. If he ran up to someone, my first instinct would always be to apologize profusely, not get upset at them for being defensive. It's my dog that's loose...I'm the one at fault here. And if he'd gotten run over by a car that would have been on me, too.

Our old dog (shepherd mix) got out one time and got into a snarling match with the neighbor's dog. No biting, but lots of growling and snapping before he kicked her away and I tackled her and got her dragged away. She loved everybody, but never did like other animals. My neighbor was super cool about it, but I was mortified and apologized a bunch and took him a bag of dog treats for his dog the next day and apologized again. And I also fixed the fence that day and made sure she never got loose again.

Our other neighbor had some kind of border collie mix that charged my kids in our yard one time and I yelled at it and scared it off. It had been out in our yard multiple times, had already bit my older son's shoe a few days before while he was riding his bike in our driveway, and I wasn't having it maul my little kids in our own yard. I went over and talked to the neighbor (hillbilly renter, not one of our long-term permanent neighbors) about it and told him that his dog was getting out and coming after my kids on an almost daily basis and he needed to keep it in his own yard. He got shitty with me and told me his dog was friendly and would never bite anybody. In the interest of not starting an argument with a retard I let it go, and they thankfully moved out shortly after that, but if it had come after my kids again I'd have called the sheriff's dept at the very least, and shot it if necessary. I'm glad it didn't come to that.

A lab that doesn't like sticks? Preposterous! OTOH I was bitten once by my sister's lab. Never did figure out what triggered him, and he's never gone after anyone else before or since.

When I was growing up, all any of us knew about pits was what we heard from the media. Which was all bad, of course. A few years later my brother adopted a pit / ridgeback mix and over her lifespan the whole family learned a lot. He's had a succession of pits and pit mixes since then and they've all been the same. Protective when they're on home territory (wherever that is, my brother is an OTR truck driver), but otherwise completely friendly and playful.

I've also read that the blue pits are genetically more prone to aggression than other varieties, and that that has been exacerbated by poor breeding practices.

When most dogs go off and attack they don’t kill as some of you have said.
When pits do it they have much greater ability to kill.
My old 13 year old Shelty mix was attacked by two big shepherds and she was hurt. I still think if those had been pit bulls she’d have been killed.
I had a pit lock onto another of my dogs a couple years ago, got her by the ear and didn’t want to let go.
Owner did nothing, I grabbed it by the hind legs and kicked it in the stomach area a few times. It let go and I swung it around and flung it into the river.
The idiot who owned it got his dog while I was checking my dogs injuries and ran for his truck.
I’ve been armed every time and haven’t shot one.
I’m getting too damn old to fight a big dog so shooting one might become my only option.

Decades ago in another life, I was in a van my boss was driving and we came across a horrific scene- a tall man holding his dog in the air while kicking an adult pit bull while it was mauling a small poodle. An elderly woman wearing a dress was sitting on the sidewalk 5 feet away, legs spread eagle on the ground. We instantly stopped the van, and jumped out, my boss grabbed a scrap piece of 2X4 from the back and started to hit the pit on the head with all of his might, the 2X4 being only a foot long. After 30 secs, he looked at me, conveying that there is not much to do, I spotted a 2' scalloped concrete edging block near us in a garden, I grabbed it and heaved it on top of the pit bull's head. He then stopped his attack, and backed into the street, sitting and panting.

But the most disturbing action was a tiny pit bull puppy, no older than a few months, was darting in and out biting and chewing on the poodle. No human taught it this. After I hit the adult, my boss kicked and punted the puppy skidding into the street, and it too got up unscathed and ran away with the adult when an animal control truck rolled up and 2 men got out with a cattle-prod type of device and chased the dogs away.

The woman was still sitting on the sidewalk with a vacant look on her face; she was in deep shock. My boss told the animal control guys to call an ambulance, she needed medical attention, and the poodle was a pool of blood and flesh, dead. I've had two other encounters with pit bulls in the years after, and I have developed a disgust and loathing of the breed.

Years ago, our daughter had our Basset at a dog park, a mom and daughter brought their newly rescued pit to the park, It promptly attacked our Basset and it took three people to get it off, no provocation by my daughter or dog.

New owners brought a newly rescued Pit to a park, a dog that had been previously abandoned, now the new owners were not mean people, just stupid. We had to have surgery on our dog, they promised to repay and of course never did so went ahead and reported them and the dog to have it picked up, eff them and that dog.

Had I been on location it would be a dead Pit and I'd never lose a second of sleep.

Did some research on dog bites by breed, fatal and non, and did NOT specify Pit Bulls during the inquiry, asked for data on ALL breeds reported that bit, it appears the data supports the publics view of this breed.

Realize that many here have or have had them, and they are civilized kind, nice dogs and maybe you have been one of the lucky owners. Pray that nothing happens to trigger their natural instincts, which have been polluted by fight breeders who have pushed the bloodlines toward the more aggressive dogs over anything.

Before you label me as anti Pit or aggressive breed, I've owned a Chow. Might be the one dog that many Pits fear, Black, Purple tongue, sweet as could be, once you were in the "family" it was more friendly and would get in your lap, lick your face, super kind. At night it instinctively slept at the top of the stairs protecting my wife and newborn while I was away.

Someone entering the home it didn't know soon found out about her, normally quiet, they don't bark, she'd get between them and us. Never did attack, but she was very loyal and command educated. Loved that dog, however it scared the crap out of people. So I get it...

Here is the summary of information from Grok's research into dog bites:

Dog breed attack statistics, particularly for fatal attacks (the most reliably tracked category), show clear disparities. Comprehensive data on all dog bites (millions annually) by breed is limited due to inconsistent reporting, breed misidentification, and lack of national tracking.

Fatal attacks represent a tiny fraction of incidents (roughly 30–50 per year on average in the US, though higher in some recent years), but they provide the best breed-specific insights. Non-fatal bites are far more common (~4.5 million per year in the US), with data often from hospital or insurance records showing similar overrepresentation patterns for certain breeds.

Key Data Sources and Caveats

Fatal attacks: Primarily from DogsBite.org compilations (2005–2019/2020 periods), cross-referenced with CDC/AVMA historical data. Pit bull-type dogs (including mixes and variants like American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, etc.) dominate.

Fatal Attacks by Breed (Approximate, e.g., 2005–2019/2020 Periods)
Using aggregated data (~500+ fatalities in key multi-year spans):

Pit Bull-type (incl. mixes/variants): ~60–68% of fatalities (e.g., 346 in one 15-year span).
Rottweiler: ~9–10% (e.g., 51–52).
Mixed-breed (general/no predominant): ~5–59% in some breakdowns (varies by how pit mixes are classified).
German Shepherd: ~4%.
Mastiff/Bullmastiff/American Bulldog types: ~3–3.5% each.
Husky: ~2.5%.
Others (e.g., Labrador, Boxer, Doberman): <2% each; many breeds involved in small numbers.

Pit bulls + Rottweilers often account for ~70–76% of fatal attacks.

Population-Adjusted Ratios ("Attacks per Expected Breed Population")
This is the key "ratio" requested. Using rough US estimates (total dogs ~90 million):

Pit Bull-type: Population estimates 5–20% (~4.5–18 million). They cause ~65%+ of fatalities. Per capita risk significantly elevated (often cited as 5–10x+ higher than average, depending on exact % used; e.g., if ~6%, they are vastly overrepresented).

Rottweiler: ~1–2% of population (~1–2 million est.). ~9–10% of fatalities. Highly overrepresented (several times average risk).

German Shepherd: ~3–4% (~3+ million). ~4% of fatalities. Roughly proportional or mildly elevated.

Labrador Retriever/Golden Retriever (most popular purebreds): Large populations (hundreds of thousands registered + mixes). Very low % of serious/fatal attacks. Underrepresented.

Most other popular breeds (e.g., small breeds, retrievers): Extremely low involvement in fatalities

Ordered by apparent per-dog risk (highest to lowest, based on fatal attack overrepresentation): Pit Bull-type >> Rottweiler >> Mastiff/Bully types >> German Shepherd/Husky >> Mixed (varies) >> Most other breeds (e.g., retrievers, small companion dogs) near zero for fatalities.

Exact ratios vary by dataset and population assumptions, but the pattern holds across studies: Certain powerful breeds (especially pit-types) punch far above their population weight in severe outcomes.

Percentage of Attacks "Within the Breed"

This is harder without total bite data, but for fatalities:

Within pit bull-type dogs: A small minority cause attacks, but the breed group as a whole shows the highest involvement.

Most dogs of any breed never bite seriously. Risk factors (individual dog history, owner responsibility, environment) dominate over breed averages.

Broader Context

All bites: Pit bulls often lead in hospital/insurance data too, but mixed breeds and others (e.g., German Shepherds, Chows historically) feature prominently. Population adjustment is crucial.

Responsible ownership, socialization, and avoiding high-risk situations (e.g., unsupervised with children, chaining) reduce risks across breeds.

Data gaps mean these are best-available estimates, not absolutes. Consult sources like AVMA, CDC, or DogsBite.org for details.

For the most current or localized data, official veterinary or health department reports are recommended.

I would have maybe thought it was the breed a while ago. I then rescued this dog. They said she was a black mouth cur. We did DNA and she is 70% American Pit Bull and 30% Boxer. She is the sweetest dog you've ever met. She was sweet since the day we adopted her and she spent most of her life in shelters and rescues (she was 1.5 years old estimated when we got her).

I have done a total 180 on my opinion. Pits are the best dogs. Loving, affectionate and she is very shy. She walks by other dogs without an issue, apart from maybe a low look to make sure the other dog isn't reactive. She walks by people as if they didn't exist. I'm lucky to have her.

With all due respect, the exception does not disprove the rule.

Pits are highly over represented, and shouldn’t coexist with humans. That does not mean that it isn’t possible to have a nice, loving dog that is a Pit; highly possible, in fact.

The problem is that there’s a much higher percentage than “normal” of not nice, loving dogs, and when a pit decides to switch off from being nice, someone or something can die.

Many of the owners above who lost children to pits would have gladly posted nice photos of their “good boy or girl” before it snapped and killed their kid.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
With all due respect, the exception does not disprove the rule.

Pits are highly over represented, and shouldn’t coexist with humans. That does not mean that it isn’t possible to have a nice, loving dog that is a Pit; highly possible, in fact.

The problem is that there’s a much higher percentage than “normal” of not nice, loving dogs, and when a pit decides to switch off from being nice, someone or something can die.

Many of the owners above who lost children to pits would have gladly posted nice photos of their “good boy or girl” before it snapped and killed their kid.

We could debate all day and you will find every argument online. I disagree based on what I've seen throughout my life and now having researched quite a bit more (after finding out my dog was a pit).

First, Pit Bull isn't a breed and includes, generally, a lot of different breeds.

The pit bull is more capable of inflicting damage, yes we can agree on that.

The people that own pit bulls, often times, are the dregs of society. People that are looking for "tough dogs". These people treat the dogs poorly and the people even worse. They train the dogs to be overly aggressive. Combine that with a tough dog and you've got problems.

Rescue or shelter dogs have no history so a story about a great dog turning quickly on a new owner isn't exactly a shocker.

I think an American Pit Bull Terrier is a great dog, and everything I've seen by having one and also tons of research has given me this opinion. As for the Bully XLs and other such breeds I have no idea.

This is Jodi Cowan, the woman who was killed by Linda Cutler's pit bulls.

We've owned 2 working line GSDs and now own a Dutch shepherd. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that dogs like that need beaucoup exercise, training to have manners, and a job to do. I know that the breeds I'm familiar with can get into trouble without these things, leading to destructive behavior: chewing on things they shouldn't be chewing on, digging, incessant barking...

It appears that if a breed of pit bull doesn't get these things the result is likely to be much more serious.

We can espouse how loving this breed is in our homes, with the family, however,

The facts show it's the most aggressive dog breed (grouped) and when it attacks has the highest kill percentage of any breed, that means all dogs classed as Pits.

Fatal attacks: Primarily from DogsBite.org compilations (2005–2019/2020 periods), cross-referenced with CDC/AVMA historical data.

Pit bull-type dogs (including mixes and variants like American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, etc.) dominate.

Fatal Attacks by Breed (Approximate, e.g., 2005–2019/2020 Periods)

Using aggregated data (~500+ fatalities in key multi-year spans):

Pit Bull-type (incl. mixes/variants): ~60–68% of fatalities (e.g., 346 in one 15-year span).

The numbers reported don't lie.... don't have any skin in the game vis a vis wanting them completely banned, but if you have one, be on your toes, if you have more than one, well, you're probably the highest exposed dog owner to having problems. Seems when they are in a pack it's worse ie more than one living together.