Kratom is my only means of pain management. I can discern no other side effects, other than the impact to my wallet. I dose on average every 2-4 hours, every day.

Without it, I would have to go back to prescription opioids like morphine, vicodin, or oxycodone/oxycontin. Or live with severe pain for the rest of my life.

I live in constant fear that it will be out-lawed or over-regulated.

Those zombies may be people transitioning from real opiates.

https://www.fda.gov/news-event...focus/fda-and-kratom
Too long to post. If you believe the FDA or not it is important to know the facts.

BTW there are many means of pain control that do not involve drugs. I am not saying that they would work for you, but they are worth looking at.

It seems that many just want to say "he's a drug addict and he got what he has coming".
However, if memory serves me correct he got originally addicted to pain pills after surgery.
If it makes any difference, to me it is more of a tragedy than a joy-riding-abuser.
Not everyone is a thrill seeker that flew too close to the sun.
IMO, let it go.

I'm more-or-less aware of potential risk factors involved with kratom use, including death. Fact is, I would prefer to be dead than live with this kind of pain. And so far, as I said, no other side effects that I can tell. What drug doesn't have risks?

I hear what you are saying and it is certainly your choice.
You did ask about side effects though. It is always a balancing act between risk and reward. There are many drugs that have very limited side effects, and have thorough scientic research to support their effectiveness.

I hope things work out for you.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
….. Feel free to lock this one as well.

Is it just me, or does everyone wince when they read these permission declarations?

^What do you mean? Para certainly doesn't need my permission to do anything, and I didn't mean to suggest such.

Or was the jab side effects the culprit and this is the blame/excuse/shiny coin?

Big hubbub about what?

Why is it everyone extols the virtues of “free will” until it bares fruit?

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Or was the jab side effects the culprit and this is the blame/excuse/shiny coin?

OFFS! Guy falls into a wood chipper when he's drunk. "Must have been THE JAB"

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
^What do you mean? Para certainly doesn't need my permission to do anything, and I didn't mean to suggest such.

Not in your case, but in general, I read the phrase as the thread didn’t go my way so I’m taking my ball and going home.

You obviously didn’t mean it that way in your response to Para.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

OFFS! Guy falls into a wood chipper when he's drunk. "Must have been THE JAB"

Dude, I suddenly stubbed my toe. Huh, huh! Come on now, it doesn’t take much to connect the dots here. You see Doug, the guy who installed my cabinets 15 years ago, probably got the jab last year, and now I’ve suddenly stubbed my toe. It was dark and I didn’t see the dog laying on the floor, but I guess we’ll never know.

This is actually of interest to me, because I have a family member who struggles with depression, and is seriously considering using ketamine infusions - does anyone here have any experience with this?

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
A drug addict died of drug toxicity. Ok.

Shocker, eh?

Who'da thunk it?

Everything (drugs) has side affects that need to be weighed against the benefits. I've seen someone addicted to Kratom (started taking it due to self diagnosed depression). He seemed fine as long as he was on it. I saw him when he was getting off of it and it wasn't pleasant.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
Everything (drugs) has side affects that need to be weighed against the benefits. I've seen someone addicted to Kratom (started taking it due to self diagnosed depression). He seemed fine as long as he was on it. I saw him when he was getting off of it and it wasn't pleasant.

Anytime there is any drug you will have people abuse it. If it was miserable getting off it he was abusing it plain and simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Beancooker:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
While Fentanyl gets lots of publicity there is little said about Kratom and Xlazine.

This is seriously true. Kratom, this shit is bananas. I stopped at the local pipe shop to buy a gift for a friend. Half the store was pipes and marijuana smoking accessories, the other half of the store was Kratom. There was a never ending line of people buying this stuff. They all looked like some kind of zombie. I have never seen anything like it. Half stumbling in, full stupor… it was pathetic.

How this stuff is still legal is beyond me. The effects it has on people are pretty bad.

That isn’t from the Kratom I can tell you that. Maybe if they are taking massive quantities but I doubt it. Many people have used it to get off stronger drugs so it’s likely they are still on the stronger drugs if you noticed any erratic behavior. Kratom certainly isn’t strong enough to cause any of the ambulatory issues you suggest.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
Everything (drugs) has side affects that need to be weighed against the benefits. I've seen someone addicted to Kratom (started taking it due to self diagnosed depression). He seemed fine as long as he was on it. I saw him when he was getting off of it and it wasn't pleasant.

Anytime there is any drug you will have people abuse it. If it was miserable getting off it he was abusing it plain and simple.

Abusing it by who's standards? It's not FDA approved, it's not a legal pharmaceutical so there are no set doses. So how do you determine @abusing it"? The way he reacted is exactly what numerous others described online when quitting it. Maybe they all just happened to be abusing it as determined by some standard that hadn't been set.

I have no idea how much he was using but he didn't have much money so it couldn't be too excessive. Then again, what is an excessive amount?

quote:

Originally posted by irreverent:
This is actually of interest to me, because I have a family member who struggles with depression, and is seriously considering using ketamine infusions - does anyone here have any experience with this?

Perry himself was on ketamine infusions. However, his last treatment was a week and a half before he died, and there should not have been detectable levels in his system (he was reportedly trying to wean himself off of it completely). It's important to realize that it is primarily an anesthetic, so you do run the risk of passing out if you're on it. Not a good time to be sitting in a hot tub.

Perry actually decries its use in his memoir. "It’s used for two reasons: to ease pain and help with depression. Has my name written all over it — they might as well have called it ‘Matty,’” he wrote. “Ketamine felt like a giant exhale. They’d bring me into a room, sit me down, put headphones on me so I could listen to music, blindfold me, and put an IV in."

All that said, ketamine is generally considered fairly safe in a clinical setting. Taking it in oral form on your own might be a recipe for disaster.

LA Times

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Or was the jab side effects the culprit and this is the blame/excuse/shiny coin?

The only way to know is an autopsy which specifically looks for it. Very few of those are done.

According to the article linked in the OP: Matthew Perry died from “the acute effects of ketamine,” according to the toxicology report from the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner’s Office. The exact method of intake is unknown. Contributing factors in the “Friends” actor’s death included drowning, coronary artery disease and the effects of buprenorphine (used to treat opioid use disorder). The manner of death was ruled an accident.

Perry had been undergoing ketamine infusion therapy prior to his death, reportedly for depression and anxiety. The toxicology report adds: “At the high levels of ketamine found in his postmortem blood specimens, the main lethal effects would be from both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression.”

Nevertheless, through September of this year, +158,000 Americans have died than over the same period in 2019. That’s more than died in a bunch of wars, put together. It’s more than a whole town. It’s a small city, wiped out in the first nine months of the year.

And it’s worse than it looks. Deaths this year should have been well under 2019 rates, since so many sick and elderly people died in 2020-2021 from ‘covid,’ leaving fewer frail folks to die in 2022 and 2023. Which means the current excess is even bigger than it looks.

This is bigger than COVID: Why are so many Americans dying early?
by Pierre Kory and Mary Beth Pfeiffer

https://thehill.com/opinion/he...ericans-dying-early/


For more on 'Excess Mortality’, see the Covid thread.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
Abusing it by who's standards? It's not FDA approved, it's not a legal pharmaceutical so there are no set doses. So how do you determine @abusing it"? The way he reacted is exactly what numerous others described online when quitting it. Maybe they all just happened to be abusing it as determined by some standard that hadn't been set.

I have no idea how much he was using but he didn't have much money so it couldn't be too excessive. Then again, what is an excessive amount?

If I use it I will use 3-4 grams one hour before lunch and one hour before dinner. That's typically 6-8 grams in a day if I was having a bad pain day. I broke my back 20 years ago and did some spinal cord damage that causes my spinal cord to fire haphazard electrical impulses to different parts of my body. It's very intense pain that no pain pill I have ever tried even touches. Even if there was I can't take any type of opiate because it screws up my entire system so bad it's not even worth it. For me Kratom has been a total game changer when I am having one of those days with constant misfiring.

Your buddy will probably not tell you the truth but when I read about people getting into trouble with it they are typically over 50 grams a day or using powerful extracts. You can buy tested Kratom very cheaply online so him not having much money isn't much of a roadblock.

By your standards no one can abuse alcohol or many other things since there are no recommended standards?