Thank you for all the replies! I like hearing the varying opinions and points of views. I appreciate even the simple stuff in case I hadn't thought about it.

As far as traffic, I leave the house at about 0450, so no traffic really at all going to work. I'm off work at 1400 and there's usually no traffic. Of course other places I drive I will run into traffic from time to time, but definitely won't be often.

With the kids, it's mostly just picking them up on the way home from work. When we go places and what not, we take the wife's SUV. It is a good point about the size thing, though. That's something I've considered a little bit, but something to still consider.

I've looked for Accords, but I haven't really found any manuals in more recent models without a ton of miles for a decent price. I've found a few Mazda6s that fit the bill, so I've considered them. Even so, there's only a few to consider.

As far as performance and all that stuff, I'm not looking to be the fastest or most efficient, I'm just looking for a fun drive. I always hear how fun and engaging a manual is, so I want to give it a go. I love driving, so it sounds like a fun challenge for myself.

Sounds like the Fit may be a decent jumping off point. Moving from an old econo-box, I bet the Fit would feel like I'm going up a class. They look pretty nice inside and seem very versatile. I play hockey so it'll be nice laying the back seat flat and lay my sticks in, instead of trying to stick them through the front door hitting everything on the way in. The low price is probably what is really drawing me to it, if it is a good fun car, which seems to be the case. The one I am looking at is on 4th of July sale at $13,488. There's a certified EX with 11k miles for like $15,500, which is also pretty solid looking deal. I can't find any of the other models that comes close, but I was concerned the Fit wouldn't be worth it if it is so cheap.

So this shifting into neutral for stopping business vs down shifting every gear, I believe that's what I've seen my dad do. Let's say I'm cruising along at 45 or 50, and approach a red light. I throw it in to neutral and start braking, at around say 25 the light turns green, do I just throw it in the appropriate gear? I've read each gear has somewhat of mph range that you need to learn, as well as how much change there is in RPM between gears. Like I said, stupid simple basics I'm still learning

ETA: I don't necessarily want price to be the main factor, but the price gap is fairly big. Decent comparable Mazda 3s are in the high teens, as well as current basic Civics. 9th gen Si is going to be mid to high teens with a good amount of mileage. Can't even find a decent Accord, and Mazda 6 is going to be high teens as well. There is a 17 Civic Si, dark gray sedan, right across the street from my house that I eyeball everyday in passing for $20k with 28k miles...

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Originally posted by smschulz:

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Originally posted by marksman41:

It wasn't what you said, it's the way you said it trying to belittle others' experiences and opinions that bothers me.
You're the one that came across like someone gave you a bowl of urine covered cornflakes.

Sounds like you need a Safe Space .

Nope - just the same respect I accord others.

quote:

Originally posted by SigSauerP226:
So this shifting into neutral for stopping business vs down shifting every gear, I believe that's what I've seen my dad do. Let's say I'm cruising along at 45 or 50, and approach a red light. I throw it in to neutral and start braking, at around say 25 the light turns green, do I just throw it in the appropriate gear? I've read each gear has somewhat of mph range that you need to learn, as well as how much change there is in RPM between gears. Like I said, stupid simple basics I'm still learning

When I slow down to stop I figure to come to a full stop and have to start from 0 mph. If I'm rolling along and have to downshift for a turn, etc., I'll put it in neutral then shift into the gear appropriate for the speed of the vehicle before accelerating.

Of course, once you learn a route it all becomes second-nature as to when to shift up/down. But I do not use engine braking unless it's a steep grade and I'm concerned about brake fade.

tigereye's post about rev-matched and heel-and-toe shifts are skills I never mastered, but are certainly worthwhile to practice if you don't grind the gears too much like I did. Being good at skills like that really expand the enjoyment of driving a manual transmission.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by SigSauerP226:
So this shifting into neutral for stopping business vs down shifting every gear, I believe that's what I've seen my dad do. Let's say I'm cruising along at 45 or 50, and approach a red light. I throw it in to neutral and start braking, at around say 25 the light turns green, do I just throw it in the appropriate gear? I've read each gear has somewhat of mph range that you need to learn, as well as how much change there is in RPM between gears. Like I said, stupid simple basics I'm still learning

When I slow down to stop I figure to come to a full stop and have to start from 0 mph. If I'm rolling along and have to downshift for a turn, etc., I'll put it in neutral then shift into the gear appropriate for the speed of the vehicle before accelerating.

Of course, once you learn a route it all becomes second-nature as to when to shift up/down. But I do not use engine braking unless it's a steep grade and I'm concerned about brake fade.

tigereye's post about rev-matched and heel-and-toe shifts are skills I never mastered, but are certainly worthwhile to practice if you don't grind the gears too much like I did. Being good at skills like that really expand the enjoyment of driving a manual transmission.

I watched some videos on rev match and heel-toe because I kept seeing it mentioned. The heel-toe may be way down the road, not sure I'm that coordinated haha. I think I can maybe get the rev match.

I w as always taught to no decelerate in N in a manual trans car.

Partly due to keeping it gear while slowing in the event you need immediate throttle. Having to fumble to get it in the proper gear takes a couple seconds that could make a difference.

I've always downshifted while slowing. Partly for the fun of it & partly for the above reason.
Heel-toe in an econo-car where the pedals aren't typically properly placed for it is a bit more difficult, if you're not going for pretty aggressive braking.

I always prefer to decelerate while still in gear for the same reason mentioned, you may need acceleration in an emergency and if it's in neutral you lose crucial seconds.

Plus, rev matching is fun.

I always decelerate in gear. I get the engine braking, but I can also accelerate quickly if need be. I try to never not be in gear.

That's an interesting point about keeping in gear for emergency during down shifts. With rev match, I keep hearing blip the throttle. Is it just a quick light tap, quick half throttle, or quickly floor it? If you are downshifting to accelerate to pass, do you still blip or no because you are getting on the throttle?

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Originally posted by SigSauerP226:
That's an interesting point about keeping in gear for emergency during down shifts. With rev match, I keep hearing blip the throttle. Is it just a quick light tap, quick half throttle, or quickly floor it? If you are downshifting to accelerate to pass, do you still blip or no because you are getting on the throttle?

When you downshift, the engine needs to be spinning faster to match the speed of the rest of the driveline. If you are slowing down, you want to "blip" the throttle just enough that the engine matches up with everything else. Otherwise, the engine will have to rev on its own to match, and you will get jerked around while the wheels try to decelerate to match the engine. This isn't really that important in day to day driving, but it's fun to get that match perfect.

Let me rephrase. When I decelerate I am not in neutral as far as the stick is concerned. I am working the stick placing it in the gear I would need if needed. The difference is my clutch is pushed in the whole time so while I am technically in neutral and not using any engine braking I am only a throttle blip and clutch letoff away from moving.

Like I said this is one of those everybody has a different style. One of the things about driving a manual is that there is a fair bit of “art” to it.

Also one other thing I forgot to mention to the OP. Just because you learn to drive a manual in X car doesn’t mean all car manuals will work/feel the same way. They are all their own animal as far as clutch feel/takeup, gear shift throw and feel etc. etc. some cars have lots of travel in the clutch before it starts to grab. Some it’s literally feels like the tiniest movement is all that’s needed.

Also be aware that reverse is not always in the same gear position car to car or may be a pull up instead of push down kind of thing. Don’t get me started on dogleg manuals. .

All I am saying is part of the fun is the art and learning from individual cars.

A good friend had that one of those Mazda3's. We took it on a few trips including down the to OBX from MD.

It was a fun car to drive and I really liked it. Not sure if it's a good option for kids although we did do a trip one year to the OBX with three adults and a small dog. It was tight but doable. I drove most of the way so I didn't have to deal with the back seat much.

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Originally posted by marksman41:

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Originally posted by cslinger:
This is just my opinion but don’t simply downshift to lose speed when coming to a stop. Use your brakes. Brakes are cheaper then clutches so I prefer to put more wear on them so I typically will brake to a stop clutch in and just shift to first or whatever once at the stop instead of rowing down 5,4,3..... etc. again just my opinion.

I definitely second this advice. "Use the brakes to slow - use the clutch to go."

I told my wife to use the clutch to decelerate - meaning "downshift". She was giving me a ride one morning and I noticed when she decelerated that both feet were in play - one on the brake and one on the clutch.....

I, too, enjoy the experience of driving a manual. I daily drive a 2016 Audi S5, the last model with a manual in Audi’s lineup. Even their new generation R8, the flagship sports car, is dual clutch now. They don’t even make manuals for sale for the rest of the world anymore. It’s a sign of the times: the general buying public wants autos. For travel we use the fiancé’s SUV.

Fortunately I don’t run into too much traffic going to and from work, but I have run into lots of traffic before, just like anyone else. For me it doesn’t bother me too much perhaps because I enjoy the experience so much. I’ve been driving manuals for a couple decades now.

My car has the auto hold on inclines feature which I don’t really use. I just learned to hold an incline like you will. My car doesn’t have the newer auto rev match feature that more modern models have now. I still enjoy manually rev matching for downshifts and engine braking. Kinda like hitting the golf ball perfectly, when hitting the rev match perfectly it’s just a joy.

I always engine brake—I feel that it’s safer to always be in gear. It’s especially important when turning onto side streets so you don’t have to lose power and slow traffic down, risking a rear end collision with idiots that follow too closely. You’ll lose precious time trying to figure out what gear you need to be in to complete the turn. I always park in gear as well.

From what I gather, excessive clutch wear happens when you’re always riding the clutch or when excessively “feathering” the clutch. If you can figure out where to shift with regards to engine speed, vehicle speed, and intended gear, you can minimize feathering. Use that left foot rest. Doing that you shouldn’t really experience excessive clutch wear. Also, don’t rest your hand on the shifter—I’ve been told it’ll put undue pressure on the synchros. Sounds reasonable to me.

People drive manuals for the experience. Gone are the days where manuals were faster and more fuel efficient. If you keep that in mind, you’ll be fine. As for me, I can see myself always having at least one manual transmission vehicle in the family. In fact, I’m looking at a manual Jeep, one of the last “SUVs” to have one. Good luck and have fun!

It's pretty interesting that the "Second Row Legroom" in the Fit is better than the Civic, Mazda3, Mazda6, Accord, and GTI. Of course, it'd rarely be used other than getting the kids home. We always use the wife's SUV for famy travel. We were even switching vehicles for awhile so I could take the kids home from school in her car. They fit a little better now in the back of my Sentra, so I just pick up in my car. We had to squish in my Sentra once and that wasn't fun, but my kids' legs are now hanging down over the edge of the seat more instead of almost straight out like they were.

Downshifting while decelerating may not work well with today's computer controlled engines. It doesn't in my Focus ST. For what ever reason, Ford's engineers have decided that the engine's rpms should stay the same or jump up a few hundred rpms for almost 5 seconds and then gradually slow down whenever I push in the clutch. I just push in the clutch and use the brakes to slow down. I do shift into the gear I'll think I'll need for when I'm done slowing down. Except if I'm stopping, I'll shift into second and after stopping, I'll shift into first.

Must not be the new Accord. That thing rivals an F150 for rear space.

IIRC, the Fit has multi folding seats, so there's a few cargo setups attainable with it.

If you're so inclined & have the time, I'd say go give an Impreza a test drive. Roomier than I was expecting & apart from a bit of body roll, a nice car to drive.

I never engine brake unless going down steep grades. Brakes are much cheaper and easier to replace than clutch.

Don't hold the car on an incline by the clutch - you'll wear them out.

As far as in gear as you slow down.. yes I do it sometimes but not all the times. I can throw it into proper gear pretty fast and blip the throttle to rev match. Let's say you go from 60 to a red light.. as you slow, the light may turn green and depends on traffic at the light, you may have to shift into a number of gears. If daily stop-and-go traffic in commutes, doing so constantly may wear out your synchros prematurely. Synchros are essentially brakes for gears and made of soft brass to brake the gears and allow for smooth shifting without double clutching.

Having said that, I have never worn out a clutch or synchros.

Also, the stick shift is not a hand rest.

I'd go with a Super 7. Sure, it only seats two, but you'll never notice making an extra trip for the kids....



Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Keep in mind that the SI requires premium gas. I just sold my 06 SI in march. It would average 20mpg.

It was a fun car. But it wasn't a money saver. Insurance was about double from a regular civic.

i have been driving manuals for 40 y ears. Since coming to this thread I have learnedI have been doing it wrong and some of the rigs I have driven have terrible manual transmissions. Oh well.