quote:

Originally posted by shikemd:...
Sweet machine, I got mine at Montgomery Ward. Are they still around in case I need warranty work?

They turned support and warranty work over to CompUSA.

This is the reason why we still have a landline even today.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Landlines, whether traditional or VOIP, are associated with a physical address in the 911/e911 system. If you ever need to call 911 and are either unable to speak/continue to speak due to a health condition, or cannot speak for safety reasons due to an intruder, police/emergency responders can be dispatched to your address. You're SOL if you've only got a Cell Phone in that type of situation.

quote:

You're SOL if you've only got a Cell Phone in that type of situation.

This may vary from one location to another. Some 911 systems get the GPS coordinates from a mobile phone that calls. A few years ago one of my employees had a mobile phone that would butt dial 911 if it was in his pocket the right/wrong way. At a residence out in the middle of nowhere, his phone made one of those calls. He heard voices in his pocket, spoke to the dispatcher after explaining the mistake, and hung up. About 10 minutes later a deputy was pulling into the neighbor's driveway to check things out. It was accurate within about 50 feet.

Only if your apartment building uses a landline to allow you to buzz someone in.

Pros: Saves money. Eliminates spam calls (in fact, we got rid of our landline (10+ years ago) when I realized spammers were the only callers; everyone we know calls us on our cellphones.)

The best benefit is being able to call AT&T and tell them to go pound sand.

Cons: None.

My security system is still tied to a traditional phone line/copper. I will never transition over to cellular/internet. I will use those as a secondary/backup, but not primary. Signals are just too easy to jam.

My security system is also hardwired. No wireless anything on the system.

Jamming equipment is easy to buy from the internet or build from instructions on the internet. I am not risking it.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

You're SOL if you've only got a Cell Phone in that type of situation.

This may vary from one location to another. Some 911 systems get the GPS coordinates from a mobile phone that calls. A few years ago one of my employees had a mobile phone that would butt dial 911 if it was in his pocket the right/wrong way. At a residence out in the middle of nowhere, his phone made one of those calls. He heard voices in his pocket, spoke to the dispatcher after explaining the mistake, and hung up. About 10 minutes later a deputy was pulling into the neighbor's driveway to check things out. It was accurate within about 50 feet.

Apparently AT&T has a proprietary system/technology that 'can' provide a reasonably precise location, but only withing 55 yards, NOT 50 feet, so if you're in the 'middle of nowhere' that may be accurate enough!. The setting in the phone for GPS Location must be ON for this technology to work!

I only have GPS Location on when I need it on, so there's that...And AT&T is NOT my cellular provider either!

It depends,
Do you have four short wave transceivers , four antenna arrays and three scanners ?
"Just in case"

Providers are all but sabotaging their copper line service. I see the boxes left open to the elements all the time. They want it to fail to push people onto fiber or cellular based networks. My last three apartments didn’t even have wiring for phone service. It’s goin away whether you want it to or not. I haven’t had a landline since I moved out of my parents house closing on twenty years ago.

I ditched mine about 5 years ago. Next to the cell, it became pretty unnecessary and mainly just another source of spam calls. When I moved to my new house, I considered getting the landline back. Even though I'm in the middle of town, I have a hill behind me and cell coverage is pretty spotty as a result. However, WiFi-calling gets the job done and the price of the landline wasn't worth it.

I'm surprised there are ANY copper based POTS phone lines still running in the US. I thought all of it had been converted to IP based infrastructure by now. I got rid of my home phone kicking and screaming, but it was easier after it became so unreliable that I couldn't count on it any longer for any kind of 911 type call because it was on the blink so often. You would pick it up and sometimes you'd get a dial tone if you waited long enough, and sometimes you'd never get a dial tone, it was very bad. It's like technology made life more difficult instead of easier and more reliable. The old POTS telephone system was much better than cellular technology for regular voice communication in terms of reliability.

Wife likes the Landline, so we us Ooma, a VOIP service.

Cost is about $8 a month and hardly ever receive a spam call.

Well, I just might know a thing or two because I’ve seen a thing or two…

Seattle was a test bed MANY years ago as the powers that be tried to figure out how to address the 911 issue with cellphones as they gained popularity. The agency I work for was VERY involved in that testing and being a Supervisor in the 911 center meant I was very involved in it as well.

While I loved cellphones, I HATED dealing with them from the 911 aspect and maintained my “POTS” landline well beyond when they got the 911 cellphone issues sorted out. Eventually, the accuracy and reliability got to the point where I was ok with ditching the landline as it was an unnecessary expense.


That said, I’ll address a few of the responses…

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Landlines, whether traditional or VOIP, are associated with a physical address in the 911/e911 system. If you ever need to call 911 and are either unable to speak/continue to speak due to a health condition, or cannot speak for safety reasons due to an intruder, police/emergency responders can be dispatched to your address. You're SOL if you've only got a Cell Phone in that type of situation.

First of all “VOIP” is “VOIP” and it is NOT a “Landline”. A “Landline” is POTS ”Plain Old Telephone Service” and is a continuous set of wires from your phone to the local Telco switch.

“VOIP” (Voice Over Internet Protocol) uses your internet connection to make the connection from your house and eventually present the call into the telephone system at some distant point. Many VOIP providers rely on or expect the customer to enter the “911 Address” into the record it presents should that connection be used to call 911.

Lots of people don’t do that, or don’t enter a correct address (12345 1st PL NE vs “12345 1st PL” vs “12345 NE 1st PL” vs “12345 1st place street”.

Another common problem is when they move they don’t update the address and “we” get an old address. You’d be surprised how many people move frequently yet stay in the same apartment complex and never change the bldg/unit number for the 911 address of their VoIP service.

I have personally answered a VOIP 911 call from a Navy spouse who was currently living in England and using their “Magic Jack” VoIP interface to save on long distance calls back home.


If you have cell service, the 911 center will get very, very close if not your exact location. Location is provided either by radio triangulation or by GPS data transmitted from your phone. The method depends on the phone, provider, and location.

There is an emerging 911 tech that cellphones are starting to have available that Landline or even VoIP won’t do - “Text to 911”

While I am not a fan (because it is destined to be overused and not reserved for use when needed) it is now rolling out and it will soon be universal.

If you can’t safely speak or are unable to speak, you can text and that text (as well as photo/video files) will be able to be received at the 911 center. The texting capability will be a HUGE improvement in time sensitive situations where 911 Call Receivers currently have to relay through a TTY or interpreter service potentially reducing delays that could lead serious injury or even death.

quote:

Originally posted by Tonydec:
…In a catastrophe when cell towers frequently go down, landlines will still work and the location will be displayed to 911. It has worked here in WA for us during earthquakes. In many areas (check your local area) even without subscription service 911 can still be called. Only caveat is that if for some reason the call is interrupted, 911 cannot call you back but they will have your exact location and not a "general area" like a cell phone.

If there is service available, Cell phones can also be used to call 911 even without a subscription but you won't have the exact location benefit of a landline.

Cell providers are required to present 911 calls from cellphones even if the phone is not on an active subscription. This is nation wide by act of Congress (seriously).

We (911) get the same location info whether the phone is on a subscription or not. The data comes in along with the call and is independent of current service or account status.

You are correct that if the call is disconnected, we can’t call back. That is one hitch they may never resolve.


As to the reliance on landlines during natural disaster, much of the phone infrastructure has become intertwined and there is no such guarantee. Your landline may go to a switch that relies on a cellular or microwave connection downstream and if that goes down, so does your POTS.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
We have a landline. It comes with the internet package, which is not significantly cheaper without it, and is VOiP, not Ma Bell.

We get free calls to Canada which is useful for family and business, and often during hurricane season, better reliability than the cell towers which can lose signal due to damage, or no electrical power.

You have a VoIP “home phone”, you don’t have a landline. If your power goes out or your internet is down, so is your home phone.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

Apparently AT&T has a proprietary system/technology that 'can' provide a reasonably precise location, but only withing 55 yards, NOT 50 feet, so if you're in the 'middle of nowhere' that may be accurate enough!. The setting in the phone for GPS Location must be ON for this technology to work!

I only have GPS Location on when I need it on, so there's that...And AT&T is NOT my cellular provider either!

You have bad info. ALL Providers routinely provide accuracy within 15’, no special setting required. Even if you have GPS “off” your phone will provide location either by an override to your GPS setting or triangulating with multiple towers/antennas.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeNH:
Providers are all but sabotaging their copper line service. I see the boxes left open to the elements all the time. They want it to fail to push people onto fiber or cellular based networks. My last three apartments didn’t even have wiring for phone service. It’s goin away whether you want it to or not. I haven’t had a landline since I moved out of my parents house closing on twenty years ago.

You can’t blame the phone company for whether a house or complex is wired, that is the builders decision. It is a cost/benefit consideration when so few people are continuing to desire landline service. My house is 10 years old and was built for us. It does not have POTS connection and that was my choice. Having a connection from the street to the house would have been a waste of almost $1000.


You can also thank the copper thieves for the decline of POTS. In my area we regularly take reports of stolen telephone transmission lines. The thieves know the lowest wire on the pole is telephone and low voltage so they have no concerns about cutting long runs of wire right off the pole. Can be a long and complicated repair that leaves entire ares without phone service. Cell phone can be a lifesaver when your development gets cut off.

quote:

Originally posted by TomV:
Wife likes the Landline, so we us Ooma, a VOIP service.

Cost is about $8 a month and hardly ever receive a spam call.

It’s not a landline, it’s a VoIP home phone. A cellphone using wi-fi calling is essentially the same thing technologically speaking. Have you happened to call 911 to confirm your address displays properly? I’d highly suggest it. It’s ok, just dial 911 and when they answer tell the Call Receiver it isn’t an emergency and that you would just like to confirm the E911 information for your call.

They will most likely NOT tell you what is displayed, but if YOU tell it to them they should be able to tell you if it is right or “something else”.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
I'm surprised there are ANY copper based POTS phone lines still running in the US. I thought all of it had been converted to IP based infrastructure by now. I got rid of my home phone kicking and screaming, but it was easier after it became so unreliable that I couldn't count on it any longer for any kind of 911 type call because it was on the blink so often. You would pick it up and sometimes you'd get a dial tone if you waited long enough, and sometimes you'd never get a dial tone, it was very bad. It's like technology made life more difficult instead of easier and more reliable. The old POTS telephone system was much better than cellular technology for regular voice communication in terms of reliability.

Certain types of businesses (sometimes even depending on the laws of the municipality or state where they are located) are required to have a real POTS landline (usually for emergency services).

We live in rural America. We have a POTS line connected to a corded phone. Last year, the power was out for 8 days. Landline worked.

Cell phones don't work inside our house, you have to go outside to use one.

Yes, the copper lines are failing. Ours doesn't like it when the ground is really wet. But I will keep it until they no longer work,

My parents ditched land lines in the early 2000's I've never had one. Also where on earth do you guys live? I've been in deep rural Nevada and had cell service.

If you live in an area prone to hurricanes, tropical storms, etc. I would keep a land line if you want to make a call. Cell towers are some of the first to go down and POTS phones will be the last to go down just due to how the infrastructure is built. This info came to me several years ago from a lady I met who retired from the phone company. She lived in Florida and would not be without a land line. Said that every time they had a storm her neighbors would want to come over to use her phone because their cell phones were not working.

Me personally, I've got a Magic Jack, technically not a land line I suppose, but rather VOIP. Paid like $75 for 5 years and I'm pretty certain those 5 years have been up for a while, but it still works!

We ditched POTS service when we moved in 2017 and haven't missed it.

My house alarm uses it and I dont want a new alarm system...

60

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Landlines, whether traditional or VOIP, are associated with a physical address in the 911/e911 system. If you ever need to call 911 and are either unable to speak/continue to speak due to a health condition, or cannot speak for safety reasons due to an intruder, police/emergency responders can be dispatched to your address. You're SOL if you've only got a Cell Phone in that type of situation.

First of all “VOIP” is “VOIP” and it is NOT a “Landline”. A “Landline” is POTS ”Plain Old Telephone Service” and is a continuous set of wires from your phone to the local Telco switch.

“VOIP” (Voice Over Internet Protocol) uses your internet connection to make the connection from your house and eventually present the call into the telephone system at some distant point. Many VOIP providers rely on or expect the customer to enter the “911 Address” into the record it presents should that connection be used to call 911.

Of course VOIP is Voice Over IP, and yes, it is NOT a POTS line, but that wasn't the point. The comparison made was that 'Landlines', Traditional/POTS and VOIP typically involve a line physically connected to the home, and an address associated with the phone # in the 911/e911 system! That is NOT the case with Cellular, which uses RF (Radio Frequency) and is Wireless, w/ NO address in the 911 system. For the record, my father worked for AT&T for FIFTY YEARS so I'm pretty well informed on communications technology, and further, just so there's no question, I'm aware that the internet service utilized for VOIP 'can' in some instances, be wireless/RF Cellular or Satellite provided (obviously wireless), but the VAST and overwhelming majority in homes have a 'Landline' for such service, whether it be copper DSL, Cable, or Fiber!