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Russia’s Sunken Warship Moskva Recalls Great World War II Naval Battles The Russian missile cruiser is the biggest by tonnage to fall in wartime since Login/Join 
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
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quote:
Originally posted by TSE:
Hitting Western Ukraine runs the risk of affecting NATO countries with fallout, but it is pretty unlikely that NATO would strike back in kind.

I don't think that's true. The Russians aren't known for precision strikes, and nukes are kinda sloppy anyway. Once they're in play everyone gets to worry about radiation. We already know that just shunning and sanctioning Russia doesn't alter Russia's behavior, so there's no reason to think that they would stop Putin from tossing more nukes around once he decides to use one.

Incidentally, the background noise has reached "full nutso" levels. Some Russian TV host made up a threat of "retaliatory strikes" he claimed came from Boris Johnson, the Brit Prime Minister. In response, the TV host said Britain would be wiped out by one ten-warhead Russian missile, or by a 1,600 foot tsunami of radioactive seawater generated by detonating a nuclear missile under water.

From Kyle Mizokami at Popular Mechanics:
http://www.yahoo.com/finance/n...ilate-164100861.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Il Cattivo,
 
Posts: 27293 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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As this seems to have turned into to the “Nukes?” thread, my thoughts.

First, I believe that anyone who predicts what Putin will do is just engaging in mental self-pleasuring. That doesn’t mean, though, that it’s impossible to make reasonable guesses about what could happen in various situations.

Could he decide that use of (a) tactical nuclear weapon(s) might gain him some significant tactical advantages, not least that it would demonstrate his seriousness to the world? I believe so. Further, if the threat of his using nukes has some people’s backbones turning to jelly, what would actual use do to that crowd?

If he did, would that lead to a general nuclear exchange with New York, Moscow, D.C., and other major cities on both sides being turned into radioactive wastelands? Unlikely. I agree that the third time a nuclear weapon is used in warfare it would be crossing a line that would best not be crossed and could have profound consequences in the future, but I doubt the worst would happen right away.

And if it didn’t happen right away, the consequences of that use would be much less than many people fear. Nuclear weapons, like shooting without hearing protection, have an almost mythic hold on people who don’t know much about either. Just as shooting without hearing protection was what people always did at one time and many of those people can still hear reasonably well, prior to the nuclear test ban treaties starting about 1963, atmospheric tests exposed significant populations to one degree of fallout or another. Many of those people are still alive and never developed diseases attributable to that exposure. What’s more, using a nuclear weapon doesn’t render the area permanently uninhabitable, and certainly not that it can’t be moved through. There are photos of General Groves, Robert Oppenheimer, and others walking around the ground zero site of the Trinity test.





That doesn’t mean that shooting without hearing protection or setting off nuclear weapons is a good thing, but neither is necessarily the end of life as we know it.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47410 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It was a 'special operation' Roll Eyes

Kremlin to family members of Moskva cruiser crew: Ship sank by accident, no war compensation
quote:
Russian Federation (RF) authorities informed family members of dead crewman from the cruiser Moskva that the state will offer them no survivor compensation, because the warship sank by accident not in military action, and their son’s whereabouts are unknown, news reports on Friday, May 6, said.

A letter from the RF Black Sea Fleet’s (BSF) prosecutor general’s office sent to Dmitriy Shkrebets, father of Moskva crew member Egor Shkrebets, and made public on May 6, said the Moskva’s Apr. 14 sinking took place in international waters by accident. The warship, by a substantial margin the BSF’s most powerful weapon, was in international waters and had not been participating in combat operations against Ukraine, and the younger Shkrebets’ whereabouts is not known, the RF navy letter asserted.

The official RF navy decision disqualified the Shkrebets family from veterans’ survivor benefits including 12 million rubles ($135,000 USD at current exchange rates) promised by Russian President Vladimir Putin in a May 3 national address to immediate relatives of Russian soldiers and sailors killed in Ukraine-related fighting.

Ukrainian and international news agencies and military analysts agree the Moskva was the flagship and command and control center for BSF naval operations in the Black Sea since Russia’s Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine. The cruiser also served as the BSF’s main air defense platform for Russian warships within hundreds of kilometers. According to those analysts and Ukraine Armed Forces (UAF) statements, a pair of Ukrainian anti-ship missiles fired from shore-based batteries in Ukraine’s Odesa region struck the Moskva on Apr. 13, setting deadly fires and forcing the crew to abandon ship. Her sinking was observed by civilian cargo ships in the vicinity.

RF authorities claimed only a few dozen sailors were killed in what they continue to describe as a “mishap”. According to practically all other sources, including Pentagon and British Defense Ministry analysts, between 100 and 400 members of the Moskva’s crew, including her captain, died following the missile strikes.

Ukrainian investigative media in April uncovered social media posts by the father Dmitriy Shkrebets calling for the elimination of Ukraine as a state, and that RF armed forces kill as many Ukrainians as possible. The senior Shrkebets however reversed his pro-RF public views after waiting two weeks for news of his son, hearing nothing from military authorities, and subsequently filing a formal complaint with the BSF’s prosecutor general’s office.

The Kremlin has tried to prevent news of heavy military casualties in its war in Ukraine from reaching the Russian public by downplaying the scale of battle defeats in RF state-controlled media and refusing to accept RF soldier corpses in UAF custody for repatriation to Russia.

Moscow’s claims of combat losses – currently around 1,500 dead in two months of fighting – are less than one tenth international estimates. The Ukrainian military currently claims its forces have killed at least 22,000 RF service personnel, and identified hundreds individually by name and unit.

Viktor Andrusiv, an advisor to Ukraine’s Ministry of Internal Affairs, in a May 6 statement said lists of RF military members known to have died or been taken as prisoner in Ukraine are available via the Ishchi Svoikh website (www.200RF.com). Access to the site is banned in Russia, but RF service member family and friends have accessed the site via VPN more than 20,000 times, and Ishchi Svoikh operators have processed more than 12,000 calls from persons looking for information about RF soldiers and sailors missing in action, Andrusiv said.
 
Posts: 14658 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
How stupid! Screwing your own people in a special way. No good can come of this for the Russian people.
 
Posts: 17250 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey
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But, he is making up for it by saving the world from the Biolabs and the Ukrainian children from the Nazis.

(I know, you just hate clicking in links. I know...)


(sarcastic emoticon)>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<(sarcastic emoticon)




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
 
Posts: 43907 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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