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Originally posted by Shaql:
and...........

that's how we get into a shooting war with Russia

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Originally posted by Sigmund:
US Navy P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft reportedly assisted Ukrainians in hitting Russian Navy’s Black Sea flagship RTS Moskva

By Dario Leone
Apr 22 2022

The US Navy reportedly used one of its P-8 Poseidon surveillance aircraft to provide accurate targeting data to Ukrainian forces to sink the Russian Navy’s Black Sea flagship RTS Moskva (121) on Apr. 13, 2022, the Daily Mail says...

Complete article:

https://theaviationgeekclub.co...ship-rts-moskva-121/

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Originally posted by PHPaul:

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Originally posted by corsair:

Didn't read page 3 or, 5?

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Originally posted by corsair:
Didn't read page 3 or, 5?

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Originally posted by PHPaul:

Guilty, sorry.

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Originally posted by V-Tail:
That infraction is not covered by the UCMJ, so you can just go stand in the corner and look ashamed.

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Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Falklands War: The Argentinian cruiser General Belgrano
The Moskva was slightly larger than the General Belgrano, previously the largest warship to sink during conflict since World War II. The General Belgrano was sunk on May 2, 1982, during the Falklands War, when the U.K. repelled an attempt by Argentina to seize the British-controlled islands in the southern Atlantic.

A British submarine hit the General Belgrano with two torpedoes, sinking the ship and killing more than 300 sailors. The attack was controversial because it occurred outside the 200-nautical-mile exclusion zone for Argentinian ships imposed by the U.K. around the Falklands, but it ensured British naval dominance for the remainder of the conflict.

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The crew of RTS Moskva (121) was blind to and not ready for the Ukrainian missile attack that sank Russia’s Black Sea flagship, according to a new analysis of the April 13 strike reviewed by USNI News.

The review of images following the strike of the two Neptune anti-ship missiles from open-source naval analyst and retired Navy Capt. Chris Carlson told USNI News that the guided-missile cruiser did not have its radars activated and could not see the threat from the two weapons.

In the photo of Moskva after the strike, the radars “are in their normal stowed position,” Carlson told USNI News on Monday.

“If you look at the pictures of Moskva, when she’s just dancing around going from place to place, or she’s anchored as a showboat, those directors are all facing aft every time,” he said.

The analysis is based on images of the Slava-class guided-missile cruiser that emerged just after the attack off the coast of Ukraine from what the Ukrainians claim were two Neptune-class anti-ship missiles.

While the Russian warship had older point-defense systems, they would have been capable of countering the Neptune missiles based on a 40-year-old Soviet design, which was in turn based on the U.S. Navy’s Harpoon anti-ship missile, he said.

“This is like Harpoon. It’s a small missile. Its warhead is about 145 kilograms, travels less than 10 meters off the deck [and has] radar homing,” Carlson said. “This is not, shall we say, a stressing threat for air defense systems. It’s not supersonic.”

In particular, the radar system that would have directed Moskva’s OSA-M surface to air missiles to counter the Ukrainian missiles appears to not have been active with its emitters stowed, based on the photograph.

“If you’re not running it, your point defense [surface to air missiles] are not going to be playing,” Carlson said.

In addition, on Moskva, “you’ve got old stuff, which means it’s temperamental. It’s hard to maintain, and at-sea maintenance has not been a Russian strength.”

Based on the photographs that circulated following the strike, the two Neptunes hit the warship near its most vulnerable point: the ship’s main propulsion spaces, dead center of the ship, just above the waterline.

“A missile hit in the forward engine room would very likely cause significant damage to the cruise gas turbines and steam turbines and could potentially distort the main shaft sufficiently to cause damage to the reduction gears of the boost turbines,” Carlson wrote. “Heavy damage in the post of energy and survivability compartment could cause a loss of all electrical power, as well as potentially disabling the ship’s automated damage control capability.”

Combined with the Russian Navy’s uneven training for sailors in damage control, Carlson said the photographs lend credence to Ukraine’s explanation that they were able to target, fire missiles and hit the target with their own resources.

Following the initial strike, a Telegram channel with ties to the Russian mercenary Wagner Group said the crew observed Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2s near the ship. The Ukrainian Navy began acquiring the combat drones starting in the last year and they are equipped with an electro-optical system that’s capable of providing the Neptune command system enough information via datalink to target the missiles.

“All they have to do is laze once or twice and then they have a feasible targeting solution,” Carlson told USNI News.

Shortly after the sinking, reports emerged that a U.S. Navy P-8A Poseidon was in the area before the attack, suggesting that the U.S. may have provided detailed targeting information to the Ukrainians to target the ship.

Carlson said while the U.S. could give Ukrainian forces a general idea of where the ship was, it could not provide necessary tracking information to the Neptunes because P-8s datalinks were incompatible.

There’s no way the P8 has the ability to send direct data via data link right to the Ukrainians,” he said. “You can’t do it by voice. It’s got to be done through a data link.”

On Thursday, following a Wednesday story from The New York Times on the targeting of Russian general officers, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said the U.S. intelligence sharing with the Ukrainians has limits.

“We do not… participate in the targeting decisions of the Ukrainian military. Ukrainians have quite frankly, a lot more information than we do. This is their country, their territory, and they have capable intelligence collection abilities of their own,” he said. “Ukraine combines information that we and other partners provide with the intelligence that they themselves are gathering on the battlefield and then they make their own decisions, and they take their own actions.”

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Russian Black sea Navy Frigate ADMIRAL MAKAROV was reportedly, hit by Ukrainian anti-ship missile NEPTUN on May 5, near now famous Snake island, Black sea. The ship is reportedly on fire, Russian Navy trying to rescue crew. Some sources already said frigate sank, but it’s not confirmed and as of afternoon May 6, should be considered as rumors.
Frigate ADMIRAL MAKAROV is an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate of the Russian Navy, Black Sea Fleet. Built 2015, commissioned 2017, displacement 4035, speed 30 knots, complement 200, armament missiles; rocket launchers; torpedoes; guns.

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Russia’s Admiral Makarov warship has been hit by Ukrainian missiles and burst into flames, according to Ukrainian officials.

The frigate would be Russia’s latest high-profile naval loss in a troubled campaign, coming after reports that US intelligence helped Ukraine locate and sink the Russian warship Moskva weeks ago.

The Makarov was said to have been sailing close to Snake Island in the Black Sea south of Odesa.

Ukrainian presidential adviser Anton Gerashchenko reported on his Telegram page that the Admiral Makarov was hit by a Ukrainian “Neptune” anti-ship missile. He cited Russian sources.

Russian navy ships stationed in Crimea were sent to help Admiral Makarov, he added.

Dumskaya, a Ukrainian-state newssite, said Russian forces had sent helicopters to rescue the crew of the ship, said to be 180-strong.

Admiral Makarov is a modern frigate loaded with guided missiles, according to the World Directory of Modern Warships. If lost, Russia’s frigate fleet will be down to 10.

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Russia Denies New Warship Strike by Ukraine

The Kremlin has denied that it has any information about a reported Ukrainian strike on a Russian warship in the Black Sea.

Speculation has been growing over the fate of the Admiral Makarov, which Ukrainian MP Oleksiy Goncharenko said on his Telegram account had been hit in a missile strike and burst into flames.

He said that the ship had been "badly damaged" after being hit by Ukrainian attacks but remained afloat for now. "Yes, yes, you understood everything correctly! The God of the seas takes revenge on the offenders of Ukraine," he wrote.

Open source intelligence monitor OSINTdefender tweeted that it was "seeming more and more likely" that the reports that the vessel had been hit were "true."

"Multiple rescue ships and aircraft are reportedly in the area with U.S. surveillance drones keeping eyes on it," it added.

In its daily report, Ukraine's defense ministry said another ship had been destroyed although it did not specify if it was referring to Admiral Makarov.

Newsweek has contacted the Ukrainian defense ministry for comment.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov rejected the reports, telling reporters "we do not have such information" about the reported strike, RIA Novosti reported.

If the strike on the vessel is confirmed, it would be another blow to Russia's Navy. Last month, the warship Moskva, the flagship of its Black Sea fleet, sank after a Ukrainian missile strike.

It follows reports this week that the U.S. had provided targeting data that helped Kyiv's forces sink the vessel, which was a major public relations coup for Ukraine and a blow for Russia's forces.

However, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said in a statement to Newsweek that the U.S. did not provide information to target the Moskva and was "not involved in the Ukrainians decision to strike the ship."

The Moskva was the largest Russian warship to be sunk in combat since World War II. However, Moscow has denied Ukrainian missiles caused the vessel's demise, saying it sunk due to an an onboard fire caused a munitions explosion.