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Retired Oakland police captain robbed by four persons and threatened at gunpoint, 1pm at a gas station in Oakland, CA. As things escalate, he shoots one but is shot and on the ground.

"Joyner ran out of bullets and sought cover, according to Baker. Then Marlon King shot Joyner as he was on the ground, Baker said. Marlon King checked on Gardner before he, Hayles and Kemandre King left the station in the Nissan."

"Joyner was shot in the legs and torso and was in critical condition immediately afterward, but underwent surgery and will live."

The three that escaped have been caught, and have been arraigned.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/ba...on-With-16647163.php

Video of the robbery and shooting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKcEp3lTC4


-c1steve
 
Posts: 3482 | Location: West coast | Registered: March 31, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
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First rule of living in Oakland: If you retire from Oakland, leave Oakland.




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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
 
Posts: 5352 | Location: District 12 | Registered: June 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It amazes me that so many people just carry what’s in the gun
 
Posts: 3262 | Registered: December 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The exact reason I put my 239 away and carry either a G19 or a G23 both with an extra mag. The days of the snubbie or little LCP are over. At least for me.
 
Posts: 5456 | Registered: August 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by limblessbiff:
It amazes me that so many people just carry what’s in the gun

Perhaps because, in the vast number of incidents in which one is obliged to employ a firearm for defense, no shots at all are fired--much less an entire cylinder- or mag-full?

quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
The days of the snubbie or little LCP are over. At least for me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I carry the maximum amount of firepower I reasonably can, given current clothing restraints. Sometimes that's as much as thirty rounds of 10mm. Other times as little as eight rounds of .380 ACP.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 21504 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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BBBButtt ... nobody needs 10 rounds to kill a deer! Eek
 
Posts: 19702 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Curious that a 25+ retired police captain is now in the cannabis biz.
 
Posts: 3886 | Location: Florida Panhandle  | Registered: November 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gun + spare mag. I've never lower than 26 rounds on person. I need to find a could dual magazine carrier for the left hip. Been putting it off.



Now you report to this line, Cookie!
 
Posts: 11042 | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
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quote:
Originally posted by ChuckFinley:
First rule of living in Oakland: If you retire from Oakland, leave Oakland.


That's the rule for slow learners.

The first rule is that if your born there, leave as soon as you reach the age of emancipation. Smile


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Posts: 7332 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
eh-TEE-oh-clez
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quote:
Originally posted by limblessbiff:
It amazes me that so many people just carry what’s in the gun


I carry what's in the gun most of the time. Sometimes when I can't avoid heading somewhere extra seedy, I'll upgrade the gun to something with more firepower on deck rather than throw on an extra mag. ***I have trained with my firearm and carry using high quality defensive rounds that I periodically verify as working with my firearm in its current state. I have a high degree of confidence that my firearm will work without malfunction when deployed, and I will accept the small risk of an ammunition/magazine related malfunction without a spare mag as acceptable.***

That said the odds of actually needing a firearm on any given day is diminishingly small if you are level headed, keep your head on a swivel, and aren't a loudmouth. Having a gun at your side, at all, is already a fairly burdensome undertaking to address a risk that is well outside the bell curve of daily shit regular people should encounter. But hey, we're Sigforum--we're belt and suspenders type of people, the kind of people who keep fire extinguishers on every floor of the house and an extra in the garage, right? So, we carry guns.

But why a spare mag or two or three? How many rounds are "acceptable" to mitigate what's already a diminishingly small risk? 6? 11? 17? 30? 60? Where do you draw the line? At some point, if we're just loading up in an exercise of mental masturbation, then why not just kit out with an AR and seven 30-round magazines?

The reality is the vast majority of defensive gun encounters are done and over, for good or for worse, with what you have in the gun. Most people will never make it through a mag change because either they are incapacitated or the threat is stopped, or because they've entirely forgotten to do so during the adrenaline dump and the chaos of everyone duckin' and hollerin'.
 
Posts: 12419 | Location: Orange County, California | Registered: May 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
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Ever have a pistol mag fail you?





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 23288 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was a J frame (5 round) carrier for years. Just so darn handy, and it disappeared in my pants pocket.

Recently upgraded to a P365 (10 round) which is a remarkable little gun and so far (around 50 rounds on the range) no hiccups.

A second mag? Not essential. If a place is bad enough that I need to carry more ammo, I just shouldn't go there. (Having said that, I would gladly carry an extra mag on a walk in the woods, but in jacket weather might just upgrade to a bigger gun with an extra mag for it).
 
Posts: 1493 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: June 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
אַרְיֵה
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quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:

Ever have a pistol mag fail you?
Exactly. Most of the failures that I have had at the range are magazine related. So, it's not so much how many rounds I have with me, it's more a matter of being able to fire a second round if needed, in the event of a magazine malfunction.



Any cocktail can be a shrimp cocktail if you put your mind to it, and if you carry lots of loose shrimp in your pocket.

הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
 
Posts: 26004 | Location: Central Florida, Orlando area | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Listen to Clint Smith:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVG9D6IVpkQ

Lost a baseplate, spilled the ammo out of the mag in the gun and all he had was a single shot, if he didn't have a spare mag, which he did.
 
Posts: 3374 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Some other recent discussion about the need for extra magazines.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...220049684#6220049684




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 44491 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ElToro:
Curious that a 25+ retired police captain is now in the cannabis biz.


Reporter:
They say they're going to repeal Prohibition. What will you do then?

Elliot Ness:
I think I'll have a drink.


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Posts: 13231 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
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Interesting that Shot Spotter initiated the police response to the incident.

Not much detail can be made from the security video recording, other than it appears Capt. Joyner used a semi-auto, so it will be interesting to learn what gun he used, how many rounds he fired, and how many total rounds fired in the shootout.

The narrative from the anti-2A gun grab crowd is magazine capacity limits are "common sense" because how many rounds do you need to defend yourself, so I'm always interested in learning about defensive shootings in which one or more shooters run out of ammo. Hoping more details are released as the investigation continues.

From the article:

"Marlon King and Kemandre King are also facing one count each of assault with a semiautomatic gun."

So CA law differentiates between different designs and specifies gun charges for semi-autos?
 
Posts: 6126 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
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If he didn't live under California's 10 round restrictions, one mag might have been plenty. Who knows if he would have had time to reload if he did have another magazine anyway.
This is an extremely rare circumstance so drawing conclusions on needs based on this event means little.
The truth is that if you have any gun at all on your person, ready to go when you need it, puts you ahead of at least 90% of the others out there. Doing that and being aware enough of your surroundings puts you ahead of probably 98%.


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Posts: 7332 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
Ever have a pistol mag fail you?


This is why I carry an extra magazine - the fear of magazine failure vs. running out of rounds.
 
Posts: 4345 | Registered: April 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
still exist
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quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
Ever have a pistol mag fail you?


Which is why I carry a revolver. Don't have to worry about "limp wrist" if one hand gets injured either.

Now, that said, the common thinking was that non-LEO gunfights needing more than 5 or 6 rounds were seen as very rare events. As in you might get struck by lightning too.

I admit maybe that's changed. It seems perhaps the rules differ now.


----------------------
Let's Go Brandon!
 
Posts: 9400 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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