Retired Oakland police captain robbed by four persons and threatened at gunpoint, 1pm at a gas station in Oakland, CA. As things escalate, he shoots one but is shot and on the ground.

"Joyner ran out of bullets and sought cover, according to Baker. Then Marlon King shot Joyner as he was on the ground, Baker said. Marlon King checked on Gardner before he, Hayles and Kemandre King left the station in the Nissan."

"Joyner was shot in the legs and torso and was in critical condition immediately afterward, but underwent surgery and will live."

The three that escaped have been caught, and have been arraigned.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/ba...on-With-16647163.php

Video of the robbery and shooting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKcEp3lTC4

First rule of living in Oakland: If you retire from Oakland, leave Oakland.

It amazes me that so many people just carry what’s in the gun

The exact reason I put my 239 away and carry either a G19 or a G23 both with an extra mag. The days of the snubbie or little LCP are over. At least for me.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
It amazes me that so many people just carry what’s in the gun

Perhaps because, in the vast number of incidents in which one is obliged to employ a firearm for defense, no shots at all are fired--much less an entire cylinder- or mag-full?

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
The days of the snubbie or little LCP are over. At least for me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I carry the maximum amount of firepower I reasonably can, given current clothing restraints. Sometimes that's as much as thirty rounds of 10mm. Other times as little as eight rounds of .380 ACP.

BBBButtt ... nobody needs 10 rounds to kill a deer!

Curious that a 25+ retired police captain is now in the cannabis biz.

Gun + spare mag. I've never lower than 26 rounds on person. I need to find a could dual magazine carrier for the left hip. Been putting it off.

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckFinley:
First rule of living in Oakland: If you retire from Oakland, leave Oakland.

That's the rule for slow learners.

The first rule is that if your born there, leave as soon as you reach the age of emancipation.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
It amazes me that so many people just carry what’s in the gun

I carry what's in the gun most of the time. Sometimes when I can't avoid heading somewhere extra seedy, I'll upgrade the gun to something with more firepower on deck rather than throw on an extra mag. ***I have trained with my firearm and carry using high quality defensive rounds that I periodically verify as working with my firearm in its current state. I have a high degree of confidence that my firearm will work without malfunction when deployed, and I will accept the small risk of an ammunition/magazine related malfunction without a spare mag as acceptable.***

That said the odds of actually needing a firearm on any given day is diminishingly small if you are level headed, keep your head on a swivel, and aren't a loudmouth. Having a gun at your side, at all, is already a fairly burdensome undertaking to address a risk that is well outside the bell curve of daily shit regular people should encounter. But hey, we're Sigforum--we're belt and suspenders type of people, the kind of people who keep fire extinguishers on every floor of the house and an extra in the garage, right? So, we carry guns.

But why a spare mag or two or three? How many rounds are "acceptable" to mitigate what's already a diminishingly small risk? 6? 11? 17? 30? 60? Where do you draw the line? At some point, if we're just loading up in an exercise of mental masturbation, then why not just kit out with an AR and seven 30-round magazines?

The reality is the vast majority of defensive gun encounters are done and over, for good or for worse, with what you have in the gun. Most people will never make it through a mag change because either they are incapacitated or the threat is stopped, or because they've entirely forgotten to do so during the adrenaline dump and the chaos of everyone duckin' and hollerin'.

Ever have a pistol mag fail you?

I was a J frame (5 round) carrier for years. Just so darn handy, and it disappeared in my pants pocket.

Recently upgraded to a P365 (10 round) which is a remarkable little gun and so far (around 50 rounds on the range) no hiccups.

A second mag? Not essential. If a place is bad enough that I need to carry more ammo, I just shouldn't go there. (Having said that, I would gladly carry an extra mag on a walk in the woods, but in jacket weather might just upgrade to a bigger gun with an extra mag for it).

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

Ever have a pistol mag fail you?

Exactly. Most of the failures that I have had at the range are magazine related. So, it's not so much how many rounds I have with me, it's more a matter of being able to fire a second round if needed, in the event of a magazine malfunction.

Listen to Clint Smith:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVG9D6IVpkQ

Lost a baseplate, spilled the ammo out of the mag in the gun and all he had was a single shot, if he didn't have a spare mag, which he did.

Some other recent discussion about the need for extra magazines.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...220049684#6220049684

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
Curious that a 25+ retired police captain is now in the cannabis biz.

Reporter:
They say they're going to repeal Prohibition. What will you do then?

Elliot Ness:
I think I'll have a drink.

Interesting that Shot Spotter initiated the police response to the incident.

Not much detail can be made from the security video recording, other than it appears Capt. Joyner used a semi-auto, so it will be interesting to learn what gun he used, how many rounds he fired, and how many total rounds fired in the shootout.

The narrative from the anti-2A gun grab crowd is magazine capacity limits are "common sense" because how many rounds do you need to defend yourself, so I'm always interested in learning about defensive shootings in which one or more shooters run out of ammo. Hoping more details are released as the investigation continues.

From the article:

"Marlon King and Kemandre King are also facing one count each of assault with a semiautomatic gun."

So CA law differentiates between different designs and specifies gun charges for semi-autos?

If he didn't live under California's 10 round restrictions, one mag might have been plenty. Who knows if he would have had time to reload if he did have another magazine anyway.
This is an extremely rare circumstance so drawing conclusions on needs based on this event means little.
The truth is that if you have any gun at all on your person, ready to go when you need it, puts you ahead of at least 90% of the others out there. Doing that and being aware enough of your surroundings puts you ahead of probably 98%.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Ever have a pistol mag fail you?

This is why I carry an extra magazine - the fear of magazine failure vs. running out of rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Ever have a pistol mag fail you?

Which is why I carry a revolver. Don't have to worry about "limp wrist" if one hand gets injured either.

Now, that said, the common thinking was that non-LEO gunfights needing more than 5 or 6 rounds were seen as very rare events. As in you might get struck by lightning too.

I admit maybe that's changed. It seems perhaps the rules differ now.