quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

Private Pilot in the 172 $6,900, pre-paid. Jeppesen kit with FAA approved ground school, 20 hours of dual, 20 hours of solo, 6 hours of ground school and flight briefing, and fuel surcharges.

As stated before, those are the minimum numbers. Flight schools always quote the minimum numbers. Most students take double that. A flight school may tell you that you'll only require 40 hours, but chances are you'll take 70-80 hours to finish. Their "prepaid" cost is only half that, so you'll pay by the hour for the remainder and end up paying twice what they quoted you.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
In this specific case the school has been around longer than I've been alive. I doubt they're going anywhere anytime soon.

After 09/11, a third of the flight schools in the country went out of business.

I've seen a LOT of aviation companies disappear overnight. Including some big ones. It's happened to me: show up for a flight and find they're done. Gone.

Not so long ago, the biggest helicopter school in the country folded, taking everything with it. They had offices and schools all over the country.

Don't bank on a big name or a long standing one in aviation necessarily being there in the morning. It IS aviation, after all.

quote:

As stated before, those are the minimum numbers. Flight schools always quote the minimum numbers. Most students take double that. A flight school may tell you that you'll only require 40 hours, but chances are you'll take 70-80 hours to finish. Their "prepaid" cost is only half that, so you'll pay by the hour for the remainder and end up paying twice what they quoted you.

They do mention that as well. They sell 10 hour blocks of time at a package price for any extra that you need. I was just posting that as a comparison between their two packages.

I have been a CFI for well over 50 years, so I am speaking (writing, actually) with a bit of experience.

While it can work OK for advanced certificates / ratings, I am firmly convinced that a pre-paid package price for primary training (light sport or private) is not a good idea. I have seen quite a few people get burned.

Buying rental time in blocks, like maybe five or ten hours, to get a bit of a discount should be OK, but a multi-thousand dollar package for a complete course has many ways to go bad, especially if, like many of these, there is no refund if circumstances force you to drop out part way through the course.

Also, it's not a good idea to get bound to a particular instructor because of a pre-paid course. There are instructor / student pairings that just do not work well. You want to be able to change instructors without taking a financial hit.

quote:

many ways to go bad, especially if, like many of these, there is no refund if circumstances force you to drop out part way through the course.

Also, it's not a good idea to get bound to a particular instructor because of a pre-paid course. There are instructor / student pairings that just do not work well. You want to be able to change instructors without taking a financial hit.

I would need to verify the instructor situations, but this is a pretty large school that trains commercial pilots as well. I'm assuming they have several instructors.

They offer a refund of any unused pre-paid training for the first 12 months according to their website.

congrats on the interest, it can be great fun..

C-172 is a great training airplane, and useful as a personal airplane also.

Try getting a taildragger checkout.

Join AOPA, check out their legal services.

Look into the cost of renters insurance. Did the school mention it as a requirement?

Get your medical first before paying for anything else.

The ONLY thing I would contribute to this conversation that hasn't already been covered in terms of obtaining a Private Pilot Certificate is that in addition to the minimum required training for the certificate, I would highly encourage you to obtain an endorsement for SPIN TRAINING as well.

Yes...the Private Pilot program covers stall/spin awareness and you will do PLENTY of stall recovery in the course of the training. HOWEVER...having been a CFI-I myself, there is great value in learning how to recover from spins (accidental or otherwise) both in visual AND instrument conditions. It's not required until obtaining the CFI Certificate, but I strongly feel it would enhance the awareness of the Private Pilot student. Finish up the Private and then get the spin training endorsement.

If you look at accident statistics for General Aviation, you will find a common thread to unrecoverable stall/spin accidents. As stated, they can occur in both visual AND instrument conditions. I've read too many articles where non-instrument rated pilots pushed the envelope and wound up spinning it in because they suffered spatial disorientation after penetrating clouds.

You might say, "Oh...I'll NEVER do that!!" Yeah...it happens to the best of us either intentionally or unintentionally. I've been lucky in my career that I learned EARLY ON to respect the machine. I have friends that are lucky to be alive even though they acted like idiots at one time or another. And then I have friends who are no longer with us...

If you're going to get spin training, get it from someone who knows spins: most flight instructors do NOT.

Far more important you don't get in one in the classic places that people do: low and close to the ground. That first turn in the spin can eat up a thousand feet of altitude from entry to recovery; the majority of stall-spin mishaps occur well below that altitude; thpically 500' or less above the ground. Recovery isn't possible.

Prevention is.

Spins used to be required for the private. They're not required as it was found that the rate of mishaps in training was higher than in the world outside of training, and the training wasn't really helping prevent the mishaps. An emphasis on stall training and spin recognition and prevention has a greater impact on preventing mishaps.

One of the world record holders and best known performers whose hallmark signature maneuver was the spin and inverted flat spin, was killed in an inverted flat spin while filming Top Gun many years ago. Another well known performer, test pilot, factory demo pilot, and ace was Bob Hoover, who many years ago made the statement that he'd never spin an airplane again.

If you get spin training, get it from a good source, not your typical instructor at the local flight school.

^^^^^
Agreed!! Thanks for clarifying, guppy.

What I failed to put in my post is that I'd recommend an instructor WELL versed in aerobatics and use an aerobatic platform like a Citabria or Decathlon. When I was a CFI, we taught spin entry/recovery to the CFI candidates in an old, ragged-out C172M that was spin certified. It honestly scared the shit outta me to do those lessons. Not because of spins (they were kinda fun)...because I was terrified the damned wings were gonna fold on that ragged out POS! And yes...I realize a TRUE spin is a 1G maneuver, but C172's are notorious for developing into a steep spiral producing high G quickly...not good.

The Houston area is lucky to have a top-notch school in La Porte (Harvey & Rihn Aviation) that's run by Debbie Rihn...SWA Captain. I'm not sure if she still competes in aerobatics or if she instructs anymore. But if I had a budding Private Pilot student, I'd send them there for spin training in a heartbeat.

After I got my PPL I bought I bought a Flight Design CTSW. Having the BRS is what got the wife to agree. I also didn't want an engine needing 100LL. The CT has a great autopilot and I regularly fly it from Dallas to Green Bay in about 7 hours and 40 gallons of car gas. Many of the earlier LSA models can be bought used for $60K now.

Maybe a nice Piper M600 to get started ?

In all seriousness, I've been starting to look at planes - no idea why - I used to fly with my dad ( Cessna 172 and then Piper Cherokee Arrow ) and it never really did anything for me - would rather be on my Harley or boating.

But for some reason, the thought of flying out of state ( I live in MN ), grabbing a nice dinner, and returning the next day sounds pretty cool.

MDS