Sorry if this should be in the “What’s your deal?” section of Sigforum, but…

Why does every single gun I see in FDE looks like garbage? Doesn’t matter if it’s made by Sig, Beretta, Colt etc. None have uniform colours between the parts. Lowers are lighter, uppers are darker (or the other way around). Grips have a third shade of FDE altogether, and magazines a fourth.

Yes, yes…. I know that black sticks out in urban/desert combat zones, so I am not berating the concept of FDE guns per se. But why can’t they be uniform-looking?

I bought an on sale Arex pistol that was their version of FDE. Didn't like the shade at all. Fortunately it is modular so I found a "how to" YouTube and boiled the polymer frame in black RIT dye. Much happier with it now.

Im not a big fan of guns with off colored furniture with black metal parts; I get breaking up the outline, but a rifle is very easy to identify as a rifle when seen at relevant distances. To each their own I suppose…

Let me clarify: my problem is not the existence of FDE as an option, The more the merrier, I say. While I’d never buy one such gun (I’ve changed too many diapers in my life to like that colour), I feel for the guys and gals who want a FDE pistol/rifle.

Why are the damn things not in ONE shade of FDE, but 3-5? There has to be a reason, but it eludes me.

Worst offender:

FN SCAR. My 17 has at least three shades from one manufacturer, plus the stuff I added. I tell myself it adds to the camo effect. MmmmHmmm, sure it does.

I have exactly one FDE firearm because I’m not a huge fan of all the different shades. The one FDE firearm I have is an Sig P320 Custom Works AXG Scorpion which has one shade of FDE. I chose black for my two Scar rifles because every rifle I held had 3 to 4 different shades of FDE.

Heathen! You have besmirched the honor of the Tacticool Barbie! Know ye not the many blessings of color variations which have naught to do with sloppy formulations and standardizations across suppliers but have many blessings in the way of Tacticool.

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One problem is different material takes on color differently. Steel and aluminum can have shade differences with thing like powder coats, and the such. Anodizing can change colors on different series of aluminum. Plastics the same, different plastics will look different depending on the formulation of the material.

Lighter colors tend to show this worse then darker colors, black, OD and the such is less noticeable.


ARman

I know little about how different materials accept different coloring coats and how that affects the practical aspects of the question. If, however, the fundamental purpose of avoiding something other than all black (or blue or orange or …) is to help with reducing its visual “signature,” then there is there is a benefit to avoiding any uniform color. That’s the most fundamental principle of camouflage.

We can argue whether breaking up the visual outline of something like a rifle or especially a pistol really makes any difference in comparison with everything else that’s going to be associated with the weapon such as the person who’s carrying it with his/her (probably) pale face and other distinctive characteristics, but fundamentally variations in color of anything, including the weapon, can’t hurt. The people whose survival most depends on not being seen in dangerous situations—i.e., military snipers—camouflage every part of their gear, including their scopes to the point of changing the size and shape of the objective lens.








In one test of different camouflage clothing patterns, it was found that the observers usually first saw the test subject because of his black boots, so comparatively small things can make a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
Worst offender:

FN SCAR. My 17 has at least three shades from one manufacturer, plus the stuff I added. I tell myself it adds to the camo effect. MmmmHmmm, sure it does.

True, but the multi-hues of gold positively advertises the superiority of the FDE SCAR-17 over the boring, and less accurate, black versions.

Same is true for the magazines. Everybody knows you must use magazines half-painted with gold in the FDE SCAR. Otherwise you'll have FTF's and other mechanical issues from using all black magazines.

@Tailhook...

Well there IS that.

quote:

Originally posted by Steyn:

Yes, yes…. I know that black sticks out in urban/desert combat zones, so I am not berating the concept of FDE guns per se. But why can’t they be uniform-looking?

I know good bit more about Coyote than I do about the origins of FDE, but if FDE is like Coyote, and I think it is essentially the Army's Coyote, then it is not a pantone color that can be replicated with a formula for standardization. So each manufacturer has to essentially look at the end product and say "that's it" or "that's not it".

Coyote came from the USMC originally. They settled on the color by going into Home Depot, or similar, going to the paint section and finding a color they liked. The color was called "Coyote" and it was a Ralph Lauren color. That's it. Every manufacturer does their best to copy that color, but it is trial and error.

As to why different parts are shaded differently on a pistol, there are at least a couple of possibilities:

- They could source the different sections from different subcontractors.

- The different parts, even though they're plastic, could have different properties, which can affect the shade even if the same formula is used to create the color.



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I believe some of the issues stem from accessories that have are painted vs anodized vs naturally that color. For example, the SCAR has an anodized FDE receiver, painted steel magazines, and dyed polymer of different thicknesses and from batches. There's ZERO chance these processes will result in uniform color. The only way you could achieve uniformity would be to instead paint/cerakote all the colored portions. Could manufacturers do this. Sure. It would cost extra and while other manufacturers have no issue charging extra for complete cerakote firearms, for some reason companies like FNH choose not to. That doesn't stop you or other consumers from sending your firearm to be cerakoted post purchase, but that's just the way it is. I could be as simple as cost. However, I think the main reason is their primary consumer of said products just don't mind the 50 shades of FDE.

Yes, different shades

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
Worst offender:

FN SCAR. My 17 has at least three shades from one manufacturer...

I see your SCAR and raise you w/ the Beretta M9A3, aka, '50 Shades of FDE'.

quote:

Why does every single gun I see in FDE looks like garbage?

Because it's the color of vomit. That said, I have a SCAR 17S and a JAKL in FDE.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
Worst offender:

FN SCAR. My 17 has at least three shades from one manufacturer...

I see your SCAR and raise you w/ the Beretta M9A3, aka, '50 Shades of FDE'.

That looks downright emetic. Abd I am a fan of everything (well, ALMOST everything) Beretta.

quote:

Originally posted by Steyn:
Sorry if this should be in the “What’s your deal?” section of Sigforum, but…

Why does every single gun I see in FDE looks like garbage? Doesn’t matter if it’s made by Sig, Beretta, Colt etc. None have uniform colours between the parts. Lowers are lighter, uppers are darker (or the other way around). Grips have a third shade of FDE altogether, and magazines a fourth.

Yes, yes…. I know that black sticks out in urban/desert combat zones, so I am not berating the concept of FDE guns per se. But why can’t they be uniform-looking?

Probably because the color/tint of the ground varies from spot to spot; no two spots are exactly the same!

Seriously though, I'm slightly serious... While all FDE parts matching exactly would be preferred to my eyes, and apparently yours and others also, would it make any real difference in real-world combat use? Making everything match would probably be a significant extra cost, at least at the development stage, so why should the mfgs bother?

Just my 2¢ worth, adjusted for inflation...

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
Worst offender:

FN SCAR. My 17 has at least three shades from one manufacturer...

I see your SCAR and raise you w/ the Beretta M9A3, aka, '50 Shades of FDE'.

Is that a crack in your slide at the dust cover?