I have seen multiple videos recently of even 9mm going through 4 or five Sheetrock walls without slowing down, never mind stopping.

I have also read lots of reports of multiple shots fired and no one hit.

Having no more than a few walls between my house and the neighbors is this something to think about or am I just worried for nothing?

I have had guns in the house for 20 years and have never fired at anything but paper targets at the range.

As Bruce Lee said boards do not hit back.

Depending on what I grab, it will be 9mm, 12GA. slugs or buckshot, .223/.556.

Thoughts?

Any round that will sufficiently penetrate a bad guy will go through multiple layers of sheetrock. Period. You can't fight physics. (This is why the old "use birdshot so you won't go through walls" bullshit is such dangerously bad advice... Can't penetrate walls = can't penetrate bad guys.)

And you cannot ever fully predict what a bullet will do in flight through a home or through a body, as they can do crazy things and divert off in unexpected directions when they meet intermediate obstacles.

But what you can do is to try to think through things out in your house so that you know where your best backstops are. For example, is there a certain spot in your bedroom where you can shoot down the hallway and have both the refrigerator and multiple interior walls as a backstop, to help lessen the likelihood of a round penetrating through to a neighbor's house. Or on the flip side, is there an angle where the only backstop is an exterior window overlooking the neighbor's window. You can then use those to help guide your plan for how you're going to approach a violent intruder, where you're going to hunker down while you wait for 911, etc.

In addition, if both your house and your neighbor's house have brick exteriors, that can go a long way towards lessening the chance of penetrating your neighbor's house.

And make sure you're using quality hollowpoint ammo (or soft point ammo for rifles), which lessens the chance of overpenetrating through a bad guy, or penetrating through multiple exterior walls and into a neighbor's house.

A lot depends on what the immediate surrounding area is like. In aviation there is something called the "Big Sky" theory of avoiding collision. It is a damn big sky, so the chance of a mid-air collision is vanishingly small except in crowded airspace.

So if you live in a typical neighborhood, the chances of your missed shot harming a person in another home is pretty darned small. That should be of some comfort, though certainly not a complete strategy just as the Big Sky strategy is not comprehensive. In apartments or where homes are very densely packed, over-penetration is something I would try to mitigate, probably by choosing birdshot.

Note that hollow point bullets tend to clog when going through wood or wallboard, not expand like they do in living tissue or water, and then they are no different than fmj bullets. In choosing home defense ammunition, don't expect hollow points to stop in walls any better than fmj. Frangible ammunition was all the rage for a while, but it does nothing all that well.

The good news is that handgun bullets will slow down after going through an exterior wall, so my worry about harming neighbors is minimal. Rifle would be a different story, and imho not the right choice.

What kind of home invasion is likely where you are? Because if a handgun or birdshot isn't going to stop the miscreants then you have a serious problem. Once they start hearing gunshots and, hopefully, feeling hits, they are going to retreat.

I like a handgun for home defense because it is easy to maneuver. I'm not a Special Operator with the full NVG and SBR kit, so simple is better for me. If a blast of birdshot doesn't stop a home invader, well then he's pretty well armored. Birdshot in the eyes is going to slow him down. Were I worried about harming neighbors with bullets, I'd be pretty comfortable using birdshot in a semi-auto shotgun. It seems like a reasonable compromise.

Harming family inside my home is a real concern in the event of home invasion. Knowing safe directions to shoot would be the solution imo. Back when my kids were living at home, my solution was to not fire towards their bedrooms.

If a bullet won't make a hole in a wall, it won't make a hole in a man, either.

And for anyone who believes frangible bullet ammunition is the solution:

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...270008405#7270008405

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

In aviation there is something called the "Big Sky" theory of avoiding collision. It is a damn big sky, so the chance of a mid-air collision is vanishingly small except in crowded airspace.

June 30, 1956, United DC-7 and Pan Am TWA Super Constellation, 21,000' over Grand Canyon.

Sketch, re the investigation:

---

EDIT to correct the air carrier for the Super Constellation. I initially typed "Pan Am" -- it was actually "TWA."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: V-Tail,

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
June 30, 1956, United DC-7 and Pan Am Super Constellation, 21,000' over Grand Canyon.

Sketch, re the investigation:

Incredible odds against that! The airplanes would have only occupied the same space for a fraction of a second, but they did.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

June 30, 1956, United DC-7 and Pan Am Super Constellation, 21,000' over Grand Canyon.

Incredible odds against that! The airplanes would have only occupied the same space for a fraction of a second, but they did.

April 21, 1958, same general area (Clark County, NV), same altitude, 21,000', another United DC-7 and a USAF F100 collided. No survivors.

Somewhat echoing what RogueJSK said, check your house for acceptable fields of fire, or put another way, "no-shoot" zones. For example, if the bad guy is in front of your children's bedroom, avoid shooting. (He may not give you a choice, however.) In 9mm, use a hollow-point bullet, which is less likely to make a through-and-through penetration. To decrease your chances of this even further, make sure you hit him.

Also - and this is counter-intuitive to me - apparently, 5.56 (M193 or soft-point, avoid steel penetrators) doesn't penetrate walls as much as one might think.

I’ve seen suicides where the shooter made sure the gun worked and shot the lowly 22lr at the wall/floorboard. The 22 will go thru your house.

There was a site called the box o truth, where some old guys shot a bunch of calibers thru a box they set up with gypsum board. You’d be amazed at how far ammo will go.

So, plan your engagements before it occurs. Know what’s behind that wall and what the next room will be. My house is covered in brick, and no round would escape it unless I shoot into a window or thru one wall towards the garage. Or thru a wall into the garage and then thru the thin skin that is the garage door.

Which is one of the reasons I choose to use a 12 ga shotgun with number 4 buck, each pellet (if I miss) will not leave my property unless I shoot at windows or that particular wall I mentioned.

And with shotguns there is a middle ground, between small birdshot like 6&7.5 or heavy buck like 0 or 00. The #4 buck, or even larger birdshot designed for larger fowl like Turkey or older lead goose loads, or even some of the large steel shot currently intended for waterfowl. And the dense patterns typically delivered by steel shot have something going fo4 them too.

To me, the obsession with “which round is best to miss with” makes absolutely no sense.

If you have that great of a concern of missing in a 12 by 12 (or even 20x20) room, perhaps your focus is in the wrong area.

My indoor ammo is the same as my outdoor ammo. 147 grain Speer g2 and Federal 55 grain T1. Both have great track records in actual shootings.

I like to add the little anecdote that one YouTuber loaded .40 shells with Lego heads and they shot one that punched through the 2 sheets of drywall they set up so I’m not sure there is any ammunition that won’t go through at least a couple walls.

Here goes my official internet lawyering...

if you are shooting at a bad guy for a fully justified reason then any round that does damage to something or someone else is actually the fault of the bad guy not you.

If I need to use a pistol to defend myself in my home. I am not going to blindly start unloading rounds in the general direction of the bad guy, I'm only going to take aimed shots. Most pistols are fired for self defense under 7 yards. The least of my worries would be over-penetration. Self preservation is my biggest worry.

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
And with shotguns there is a middle ground, between small birdshot like 6&7.5 or heavy buck like 0 or 00. The #4 buck, or even larger birdshot designed for larger fowl like Turkey or older lead goose loads, or even some of the large steel shot currently intended for waterfowl. And the dense patterns typically delivered by steel shot have something going fo4 them too.

Heavy waterfowl shot should be a no go against a lethal threat. I shot two deer at close range with #4 buckshot, and it worked, but felt bad about it because it wasn't as clean and fast of a stop as 00, so I wouldn't use #4 for anything that could continue an attack. That's like suggesting a 30-30 for Grizzly. Nope, bad information. Unless the FBI tells me otherwise, I think small shot for human threats is a very bad choice. We see this repeatedly on the great Sigforum, and I still don't get it.

Years ago Olympic Arms answered this question. They created test walls and shot them with the projectiles you may use.

Search the internet for these test results.

Their answer for not over penetrating was .223

Imagine that... The AR15 seller concluded that the AR15 was the best option. ()

In all fairness, so did the Marines. They only thing they sell is marrying strippers and buying cars for 48 percent financing. Among other bad life choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
Here goes my official internet lawyering...

if you are shooting at a bad guy for a fully justified reason then any round that does damage to something or someone else is actually the fault of the bad guy not you.

Some of us have to consider this since it could end up with you hitting one of your kids sleeping in another room adjacent or across the house, or your neighbors kids if it goes through the exterior walls.

Some folks still have family across the house, happened to a neighbor when he lived in Miami area, house broken into, kids rooms across the house, he ran them off with the chack chack speech, but that's not always effective. His concern was a round going across the room in the center between the bedrooms where the intruders were standing.