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Fighting the good fight |
An interesting piece from https://thehill.com/opinion/in...-us-force-repayment/
I like the idea of potentially using China's unpaid $1T debt to offset our own $850B debts held by China. It would not only save the US $95M in daily interest, but getting us out from under that could also free our hands to potentially take more forceful actions to counter China's growing threat without having to worry about them calling in our debts, as is often mentioned as a concern. Of course, that plan would require raising the funds needed to purchase the $1T in debt from the current holders... But in the grand scheme, that $1T would eventually pay for itself in ~29 years using the $95M per day in saved interest. And like most instances where defaulted debt is purchased from another holder, they can likely acquire it for pennies on the dollar, which would lower the total cost from the full $1T. However, the unmentioned complication here is that, since this is apparently all pre-PRC debt assumed by the PRC from the ROC, forcing this issue with the PRC would signal to our ally Taiwan (who holds themselves out to be the true ROC) that their claim to China is less legitimate. So there's another international relations complication to this quagmire too. But considering the US has formally recognized the PRC as the government of China since 1979, that may be moot nowadays. | ||
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Ammoholic |
It is likely that many (most?) of the current bondholders already did that. It is possible that few would be willing to sell cheap. Add in the shrewd business acumen of the federal government and the taxpayer should consider themselves well served if the government doesn’t pay a significant premium over the face value of the bonds. Of course since the government will likely turn to the fed’s printing press to borrow the money, $1T isn’t a significant hurdle. The current administration (being bought and paid for by China) is unlikely to take any action. However, if our military has been sufficiently weakened to make coming to Taiwan’s imprudent, if even possible, one response to China making a move against Taiwan would be to demand the PRC pay on the bonds. It will sure be nice if the next election goes differently than the last. It would be nice to again have a President with enough of a pair to do something about this and enough brain cells to think it through and decide the right approach. | |||
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
The sooner we decouple everything we can from China and the CCP, the better. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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No More Mr. Nice Guy |
I cannot see how there is any direct benefit to the taxpayer for the federal government to acquire the bonds. Those bonds are debt owed to private citizens by China. If the government buys out the citizens it exchanges cash for bonds which could have been used instead to buy back US bonds (debt) held by China. So there is no net benefit to the taxpayer. The private citizens holding the Chinese bonds get made whole, so they win. The total ineptness of our government to win may result in very unfavorable terms on both transactions. We may pay far more to buy the Chinese bonds than the Chinese will allow to be exchanged against our bonds. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
Unless the bearers of these defaulted bonds are willing to accept a lesser value. (Like a doctor's office selling a defaulted medical debt to a collection agency for less than face value.) For example, acquire China's $1T debt for $500B and use it to offset our $850B debt, thus saving $350B plus no longer being under China's thumb and no longer being subject to $95M in daily interest. A group of private citizens has little means to compel China to pay up or come to some other compensation agreement, compared to the US government. | |||
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No More Mr. Nice Guy |
That would be great. But I expect the geniuses in DC would do the opposite. They'd pay full face value for the Chinese bonds plus accrued interest owed the bond holders. Say $1T total. Then the Chinese would negotiate a lower value, only exchanging $500B in US bonds. Our government would lose half a trillion $, and still be paying interest on $350B in bonds held by the Chinese. Except for DJT, our government has been terrible at playing hardball with foreign powers. | |||
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Member |
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Raptorman |
China is confiscating savings and arresting debtors at this time. Their real estate market bubble Ponzi Scheme has collapsed and everything is falling with it. ____________________________ Eeewwww, don't touch it! Here, poke at it with this stick. | |||
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His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm. |
As if they would care about that. They'll do as they please and screw the bondholders. | |||
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blame canada |
THIS bears repeating. Just rip the bandaid. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ www.rikrlandvs.com | |||
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The Ice Cream Man |
I think the bigger issue may be how that works out with recognition of Taiwan. My guess is Taiwan claims to be the correct payor of those bonds, but lacks the resources to pay them/isn’t willing to pay them off to prove a point. IOW, we are a nation founded by philosophy, which has enshrouded that philosophy as our sovereign. We don’t make sense without it. The UK is a relatively free dictatorship, which exists to serve a limited gene pool. It’s a friend, at times, but it does not serve the same philosophy. But the article is a good try - I wonder if it was written by a bond holder/per the direction of one. | |||
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Power is nothing without control |
That was my first thought after reading. The bond holding group would very much like to sell the US public its uncollectable debt. No thanks. - Bret | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
That's the first thought that came to mind. If China were to pay back the bonds and the US accepts, that's saying Taiwan is a province of China. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Ugly Bag of Mostly Water |
Another thought: The bondholders work out with China to pay back just $500billion. Then the US government agrees to pay China only $500billion of the 850. China is paid off, bonholders are paid off, and US govt owes only half what they did, so interest payments are much lower. Endowment Life Member, NRA • Member of FPC, GOA, 2AF & Arizona Citizens Defense League | |||
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