Can anyone tell me what the differences are between force marines and MARSOC? I’ve read what there is on the internet, but curious what the differences are for a young mans career?

There’s still a MARSOC, each service has a C&C overhead, part of SOCOM. Marine Raiders are USMC SpecOps. Force Recon is still an eye-lete unit, but they are not attached to SOCOM

Yes, I’m familiar with all that. I’m just trying to gauge if what a recruiter is saying is BS.

Don't know the specific answer to your question jljones, but based on my Navy experience - if a recruiter is saying it, its most likely bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by 18DAI:
Don't know the specific answer to your question jljones, but based on my Navy experience - if a recruiter is saying it, its most likely bullshit.

Claims that force is a good stepping stone into MARSOC. That is a simpler route than going straight into a raider MOS.

They are probably a decent stepping stone to MARSOC if you can't get a contract straight into MARSOC.

Think of them as Rangers are to Army SF.

Neither Rangers nor Force Recon are SF(Army SF, SEALs, MARSOC, Pararescue, etc). They're both spec-ops, which is a middle ground between standard troopers and special forces, and often supports SF units directly.

For all 4, Rangers, Force Recon, MARSOC, and SF, I'm pretty sure you can get in as any MOS as long as you meet the requirements.

I hear that you can get a contract straight to MARSOC/SF now, though, it that's the end goal. That's an avenue I'd explore.

edit:

quote:

That is a simpler route than going straight into a raider MOS.

I missed this line.

In that case disregard what I said above and yes, he is full of shit. If you can go straight to MARSOC then why the hell would you do anything else in your contract? Recruiters are 100% trying to fill their quotas and don't give a shit about you. The lying sack of shit behind the desk at MEPS is indirectly the reason I'm permanently disabled now. I don't think he said a single true thing to me the entire time we spoke, but I was too much of a dumb shit to call him on it or realize that another person would do that to someone that wanted to serve. Whoever you're asking this for, make sure you emphasize to them that if they feel like they're being jerked around or misled at ANY point in the recruiting process before being sworn in(which happens at the end of MEPS) to fucking walk away ASAP, even if they're sitting at MEPS about to get sworn in.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Yes, I’m familiar with all that. I’m just trying to gauge if what a recruiter is saying is BS.

Damn Bro, your recruiter never lied to you, did he? Because I know mine didn't...

RECON & Force Recon still belong to the Marine Corps, where as MARSOC (Raiders) are Marines attached to SOCOM. Long story short, Marines wanted/needed a cut of the SOCOM $. Raiders were their way in the door. Yes, the first ones through that door were 2nd Recon and guys from 1st and 2nd Force. And they paved the way, set up and ran the courses that led to Raiders.

Missions are different.
MARSOC/ Raiders- Force Multipliers, special reconnaissance and surveillance missions, yes, they do some raids, and direct action stuff, but that's not their main gig.

Force- Reconnaissance missions beyond 150 miles behind enemy lines. Amphibious Reconnaissance missions, Direct action stuff and raids for the MAGTAF. Operations where there needs to be an actual set(s) of boots on the ground/ eyes on target far, far away in dangerous places.


The road to Force is through Recon. RARE, AS IN DAMN NEAR 0, is a Devil Dog going directly to Force. You have to spend at least an enlistment or two at Bn, hit a few schools, get some notches on your belt before you get accepted to Force.

The road to Raiders is different. Think SEAL training- Any MOS can apply: Butchers, bakers and candle stick makers can make it TO the pipeline. Once in the pipeline, things come at you hard and fast, those that keep up, keep up. Those that can't, go somewhere else. Attrition rate is in the 90%+ range.

I don't know what the minimum requirements are anymore for either Reconnaissance, or MARSOC, I'm sure it's 1st class PFT, and at least "expert" rifle, no NJP's or other "blemishes" in the record jacket. I've heard that one can get a slot at BRC/ARS (or whatever it's called now) guaranteed from enlistment. So after graduating Boot, then SOI, they can get into a 5 week "primer" course, the on to further training. Again, attrition rate in in the 90+%. Very, very few make it through right out of boot camp/SOI. The ones that have been in the FMF for a few years usually fair better.
It used to be 12 weeks of a soul searching grind.
Again, after a few years of getting your ass kicked in a Recon Bn, one gets selected to go to Force. Every thing I've heard, Force Selection is like Ambhib Recon / Basic Reconnaissance on steroids! Shorter, but WAY MORE intense, and less "Lee Way" to make mistakes. IF, and that's a HUGE IF, one makes it into Force, they get to have their ass kicked even harder and faster than back at Bn. However, they get to be in a club of people that's less than who's been in the NFL all stars.

The fun just never stops in any of them- Recon, Force, or Raider.


Hopefully all is well with you down there! Stay safe and tell them to quit watching "Heat"!

This guy breaks it down:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nBOrclf6rwA

I'm not sure I can add anything to the difference in the two but as mentioned, if the words stepping stone was used he is full of shit.

It's like saying you can go "UNDES" in the Navy and that way you can "Choose any job you want". Ummm...okay.

If he wants something tell him to make that a demand, otherwise he will walk away. It's like buying a car. If he takes his chances there is a good chance he'll wind up spending years doing some BS he's not interested in and likely become sour with the whole experience. SOMETIMES it works out, most often it does not.

former Army guy here so can't add anything specifically as it sounds quite confusing

only thing Ill say generally is that there are usually multiple paths to achieve success in the service

and the top outfits are ALWAYS looking to add quality members sometimes its just a bit circuitous and honestly going 'directly to GO' is not always the best option (fitness / mental maturity / skill mastery / etc)

i wish him the best


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I called my son. He is an Infantry Sgt in the 3rd Light Armored Recon Battalion (not a "Recon" Bn., but a Recon Bn nonetheless) at 29 Palms. They work a lot with Recon Bns and some with MARSOC units. He also got a recruiting gig so I figured he would know.

A person can be recruited into Recon (but not Force Recon/Raiders). A recruit would go to Boot, Infantry School and then Recon School. He states Recon is essentially equivalent to the Army Rangers in terms of what they do. They do not fall under MARSOC. There are 4 battalions of Recon Marines, which report to the Divisions to which they are assigned.

Force Recon/Raiders fall under MARSOC, Marine Special Operations Command. A recruit cannot go directly into a MARSOC unit. 2 years in their MOS is required before they can apply for MARSOC. It doesn't matter what MOS it is, but 2 years in that MOS is required.

If you like, I can put you in contact with him and he can give you the straight dope.

Clear as mud. Only the armed forces can make up something that convoluted and confusing.

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
Clear as mud. Only the armed forces can make up something that convoluted and confusing.

You've obviously never talked to a tax attorney.

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
Clear as mud. Only the armed forces can make up something that convoluted and confusing.

Try making heads or tails of the Army's LRRP/LRP, "Ranger" but not a Ranger, recon/Recon/Recondo designation mess in the Vietnam era.

My son made a good point early in his career. He said it's not the MOS that's going to determine where you go in the Marines. There are infantry Marines who can't compete and won't make it to anything close to 20. There will be Marines in the service MOSs that will.

Not getting in trouble. High CPT and PFT scores. Superior performance regardless of MOS. Taking on other temporary assignments and doing well at those - recruiting, drill instructor, etc. Community volunteering is a big one. Marines want their people in the communities serving food at homeless shelters, mentoring kids. Completing your education requirements early for each rank. Asking for more responsibility. And having a plan and know how to get to the plan's destination. My son's goal is to become a Marine Gunner (not Gunny) and he's built a roadmap to it and is checking off the blocks as he goes. And yet none of this is a guarantee. But it doesn't hurt.

Given the force size, only the very best will make it to 20 or beyond.

I can't help with USMC speak or their requirements for specific MOS's. What I can tell you through both personal and professional experience is until you actually show up on your ship date, there are outs to whatever contract you've signed. I personally know people who have done it, and I went through it myself.

Marine Recon conduct amphibious assaults, deep recon and surveillance, and battlespace shaping in support of the Marine Expeditionary Force. MARSOC missions support our & foreign governments' internal security, counter subversion, and reduce violent risks from internal and external threats against the U.S.

MARSOC has created its own training pipeline, a grueling two-phase assessment and selection process, and a nearly nine-month school house known as the Individual Training Course, which transforms Marines into elite special operators. MARSOC use MOS 0372 while Recon uses the designation of 0321.

The NCOIC of my recruiter station was a Force Recon Marine. He never went through Bn Recon, but he was a already a Scout Sniper, and a SSgt when he went into Force. He pointed out that almost no one in Force Recon is below Sgt.
From the Recon Marines, Force and Bn, and the snipers I knew, they all made it pretty clear that you first, have to be a Marine.
There's also ANGLICO, they do all the cool shit too.

I guess I'll be the one guy that says it, but my recruiters didn't bullshit me at all. But I guess when you tell them you specifically want to be an Infantry Marine, they figure there's no point in lying to you.

Bit of a necropost....

The Fieldcraft Podcast interviews a former MARSOC Marine James Phillips, who gives a good insight into MARSOC and the in-out's. The interviewer, Owen's is former Special Forces, and before that Irish Army.
https://soundcloud.com/fieldcr...s-and-james-phillips

Just to update-

Thanks for all the replies.

He’s going in on a recon contract. He thinks it will better prepare him for MARSOC tryouts. He has what it takes to make it through BRC, even though he realizes that a recon “contract” is nothing but a slot in the school. He still has to make the cut.

The adventure starts June ‘21.