Molecular biology is a tricky beastie. :/

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
Chemotherapy is only a couple of ingredients removed from Mustard Gas.

Radiation is primative.

Chopping off limbs and body parts - doing that in the 1800's.

I know there are some hard working healthcare professionals out there working day and night to help cancer victims - but how much progress do we really think has been made versus other aspects of our lives. (technology, electronics, automobiles, etc)

This is such a gross oversimplification it's hard to take seriously. It's like saying the model T had an internal combustion engine so when you look at the Bently Continental, it's like we have made no progress in the automotive realm.

Survival rates for the vast majority of cancers have increased exponentially. Ask yourself honestly, would you rather have cancer today, 20 years ago or 50 years ago?

Whenever I read some bizarre conspiracy theory that would require for its success the combined efforts and absolute secrecy by several battalions of diverse folks at all levels of scores of organizations, I’m reminded of the confident pronouncements of similar conspiracists over the years. My favorite is the JFK murder, and although most of that crowd has died off, something I posted here some 12 years ago is just as relevant to such crackpot ideas that the entire health care industry is hiding the cure for cancer; all that’s necessary is to change a few words here and there.
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We have a government that hasn’t been able to get rid of a two-bit, tin pot cigar-smoking dictator not 90 miles from our shores for the same 40+ years even under the (temporary) leadership of the only President who was anointed by Our Lady Herself; it got shown the door with its tail between its legs by a miniscule country of nuc mam-swilling rice farmers; its top intelligence agency has been penetrated time and again by spies from every enemy and nominally-friendly country on the planet, but not one has been terminated with extreme prejudice; the same agency’s most sensitive operations have been exposed by the likes of ship’s bilge cleaners, not to mention its own agents who might as well have taken out a full page ad in the Washington Post saying, “I’m a spy” by the amount of discretion they showed; its top police agency supposedly had incriminating files on every politician, entertainer, news reader, and every other person of importance in the country, and yet couldn’t keep the embarrassing stuff secret; every presidential Administration has done something incredibly stupid—usually more than once—and gotten caught every time, thereby proving that not one of them learned any of the lessons taught to its predecessors; has spent vast amounts of money on every conceivable social problem with nothing to show for it except stupider students, more welfare recipients, more people in jail for meaningless “crimes,” and a generally less self-reliant citizenry; and that’s just the obvious stuff.

And yet this same government managed the following during that same period: conspired with the Mafia, the anti-Castro Cubans, big oil, the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Joint Chiefs, Dallas Police Department, Jack Ruby, and half of everyone else who was alive in November 1963 to successfully kill JFK (not to mention his brother and MLK a few years later); convinced the entire country (but not Red China—those wily folks knew better all along) that a tawdry film studio production was actually a successful space exploration program costing billions of dollars and involving thousands of people over years; and, most recently, orchestrated the most successful attack on American soil since 1812 in the events of 9/11, to include convincing the folks on flight 93 to fight back against their hijackers so no one would notice that the aircraft was actually blown to flinders by a Sidewinder missile fired from a U.S. warplane, and got everyone to blame a bunch of innocent (if perhaps slightly misguided) Muslim fanatics for the job.

Here’s my question: Did all this stuff really happen, or am I just having a long, disturbing nap?

Or:
“Hey, Ruby, this is Joe.”
“Hi, Joe. What’s up?”
“They’re going to be transporting that Oswald guy in a few minutes. I want you to run over there and kill him. You’ve still got that snub-nose loaded with .38 round nose bullets—right?”
“Sure do. I’ll be happy to commit a murder on live TV while surrounded by cops and either go to the electric chair or spend the rest of my life in prison for you, Joe. Will you look after my hookers when I’m gone?”
“Of course, Jack. Don’t miss, now.”
“I’ll do my best. I haven’t ever shot anyone before, though, and I don’t know much about anatomy. One shot to the chest should do it, right: I don’t have to shoot more than once?”
“That’ll do it, Jack. One body shot with a low-powered revolver will kill them every time. Trust me; I’m a trained, experienced assassin myself and I know about such things.”

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Whenever I read some bizarre conspiracy theory that would require for its success the combined efforts and absolute secrecy by several battalions of diverse folks at all levels of scores of organizations,......

Odds, averages and probabilities.

On the average, most people and organizations are incapable of doing this. However, there are small groups and a few individuals who have the discipline to pull it off.

Being a self proclaimed cynic, I'll agree that most people are too lazy and too dumb. On the other hand, even I'll admit that not everyone is.

As proof, I'll offer the F117 Stealth Fighter. This aircraft flew in total secrecy for 10 years before the general public became even vaguely aware that it existed.

Some groups and individuals are capable.

V.

There have obviously been many projects—even some run by the government—that remained secret for periods of time, some longer than others. Perhaps the most notable example was the Manhattan Project to develop nuclear weapons as detailed in a great book I’m reading now, The Making of the Atom Bomb by Richard Rhodes. Of course, that wasn’t really a secret from the most important of those interested in such things, i.e., the Soviet Union that had managed to infiltrate a half dozen or so high level spies into the works. (A better example was the code-breaking efforts in World War II, some of which were still more or less secret even when I enlisted for “intelligence corps” duties in the mid-1960s.)

By definition we won’t know about projects that have remained secret, but it’s probably also safe to assume that most of those involved relatively small numbers of people who were highly motivated by their patriotic duty to keep them secret. That’s hardly how we can describe the innumerable individuals who are involved in cancer research, however. Does anyone truly believe that countless independent programs involving thousands of people at all levels and conducted for decades are all controlled without a leak by an evil group of conspirators?

Not that it matters much, however. When the atomic bomb is built or cures or preventions (such as we already have) for certain cancers are developed, the doubters and conspiracists will benefit as much as the believers, and the former will just have to find other evil plots to console themselves with.

Personally, I'm excited about these breakthroughs and the potential for a new lease on life for those affected.

I'd prefer we not devolve into "Uncle Sam's hidin' Squatch!"

don't misunderstand my position

I don't think they're hiding a cure

I don't think they're even looking for one

the money is in management of the conditions, not the cure

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
don't misunderstand my position

I don't think they're hiding a cure

I don't think they're even looking for one

the money is in management of the conditions, not the cure

There is a certain amount of truth to this. More importantly, it's the program that's the main problem.

How does this play out?....

Let's say that I go to the dentist. I walk through the door with insurance card in hand. I give it to the admin person and they look up the details of my particular insurance plan. They then put me on "the program", based on what my insurance provides. I'm signed up for x-rays, cleaning, etc, etc.

True story.....

I split an old filling. The entire upper portion of the tooth was gone so I needed a crown. My dentist put a temp in while the crown was being made. I got the whole thing done in three visits.

The tooth became really, really hot a week after the crown was put on. I ran down to the dentist's office and he referred me to one of his "colleagues" who did root canals. The fellow demanded $1,600.00 cash, on the spot.

I recall the root canal dentist using a super cold instrument to see if the root was still alive. Why didn't the other guy do that up front? Probably because I wouldn't have been under duress and could have looked for a better deal if I hadn't been under pressure.

..... and dentistry is better, healthier and more reliable than ever before.... but you're still on the program.

My main point is this; measure your risk to reward ratio. If "some nut" offers you the following advice;...

Stop eating sugar or an excess of anything that your body will convert into sugar.

So, what's your potential risk and what's your potential reward? There are a lot of simple things a cancer patient can do to tilt the odds in his/her favor.

V.