quote:

Originally posted by jbourneidentity:Hi tacfoley. Love the UK. I will visit there someday.

Regarding your last paragraph, if I'm reading your context correctly, I think I can expound on this.

You're right, here in the US, it's extremely different, and we are at a crossroads nationally. We have extremely violent Marxist anarchist leftist groups (Antifa, BLM, etc.) who have grown in number and are now using firearms against law enforcement and citizens. They're Marxist revolutionary groups who operate against the Constitution and seek an overthrow of our Constitutional Republic in favor of a socialist regime. For example, Dallas PD HQ was attacked and officers murdered a few years ago, and Portland has been a leftist madhouse for over a year now, with millions of dollars in damages done to legitimate businesses there. Basically, I think the fear is that people who oppose the Constitution as the law of the land, and in particular the Second Amendment, should not own or train with firearms. If they do, it should be considered suspicious, not on the basis of religion, race, or ethnicity, but on the basis of their brazenly outspoken political agendas that run counter to the Constitution. Why empower domestic enemies?

It'd be like training suspicious people to fly small planes in Florida, fail to report that suspicion, and then finding out later that they were the 9/11 attackers. Imagine a version of that...but with guns.

Thanks for that long and useful explanation, Sir. I'm much obliged. I also have to admit to being an Oregonian for a couple of months every year until this covid thing arrived, and with friends having moved to Tigard, I'm up to speed with the appalling shenanigins going on there, for sure. As for the rest, I have to say that it gives me and Mrs tac great cause for concern, since other very close friends live way out of Eugene and are not only old, but vulnerable with it, and having no man around the house any more, would be easy pickings for some of your previously-mentioned a$$holes.

Although we have no RKBA here, we have a very rigorous and intrusive investigation into our lives, private and public, before we can even APPLY for a Firearms Certificate. This involves a six-month probationary period in a club before gaining full membership and authorisation from the club secretary - the primary referee, to go ahead and apply for a gun/guns Two other independent people of standing must also testify to your good character - even your family doctor is required to vouch for you, and MAY be required, if it is subsequently found necessary, to break patient confidentiality if the police find that you are behaving out of character or in any way contrary to law. For instance, getting rat-arsed and out of your skull and dancing on cars even once might be fun for you, but it will probably cost you all your guns. Drug-taking? If not declared on your application as medically prescribed for your diabetes/high blood-pressure/something else, then again, bye-bye guns.

However, nowhere does the form mention any kind of political bent of an outré disposition.

You can sure that this country being what it is, any signs of non-compliance with the normal mores would probably get picked up VERY quickly.

Good points, CPD SIG, and well stated.

I believe I understand you and agree that there are topics and information I’m familiar with that I wouldn’t want to be responsible for imparting to certain people. False modesty aside, I know and have thought of things that could cause harm that are not common knowledge. But even if things I could pass on were readily available, 1. it’s an assumption that the other person will actually learn them*, but 2. if he does, I won’t share in the responsibility for his knowledge and acts.

* About that point, many shooters and gun owners believe without giving it a lot of thought that others know and are concerned about the things they are. We see this all the time in discussions here, but mention “the four” gun safety rules to even most law-abiding gun owners and all we’d get in return would be blank looks.

One study of active shooter incidents observed that there was a common perception that the perpetrators were usually “Rambo types,” but the study revealed that that was simply not true. Many of the incidents I’ve studied were ended because the criminal’s gun malfunctioned and he couldn’t correct the problem. The person who is properly trained and practiced is unlikely to have a malfunction in the first place, but if he does, clearing it is a matter of a few seconds.

None of that applies to someone who just doesn’t share our political or other views, but it can apply to some people.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I too have taught some people I felt were lefty. Their right to self defense is the same as mine. But I would not teach people who are openly hostile, use the word "revolution" or otherwise advocate some type of pre-emptive violence.

It seems like denial of training based on an easily articulable standard (the above seems like a great example) would be a lot more defensible as open to the public than discriminating on political persuasion. "Oh, you didn't want to train the guy because he was openly hostile, talking about a revolution, and sounded like a bit of a nutcase? Thank you for using reasonable discretion!"

Back before Pat Rogers (EAG Tactical) passed, he would require a state issued CCW or LE or .MIL credentials IOT attend class. It was his way of reducing the chance of a prohibited person attending.

When I started the Hunting class in Germany, you had to have a background check completed and signed off by your supervisor (.MIL) before you could even start the classroom portion of the class.

My wife and I were actively teaching classes between 1992 - 2008. For the first level "Firearms Safety Class", no requirement. After that, the Defensive Pistol classes required the individual to have a valid CCW/LTCF, LE or State Certified Security Officer creds, or a letter from their local PD/Sheriff's department showing a clear background check.

Same requirement for the Defensive Pistol League that we ran.

Not perfect, but it worked for us.