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Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted


https://apnews.com/article/nat...d89577d5b752d69d76eb

quote:
Finland joined the NATO military alliance Tuesday, dealing a major blow to Russia with a historic realignment of the continent triggered by Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

The Nordic country’s membership doubles Russia’s border with the world’s biggest security alliance and represents a major change in Europe’s security landscape: The nation adopted neutrality after its defeat by the Soviets in World War II. But its leaders signaled they wanted to join the alliance just months after Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine sent a shiver of fear through Moscow’s neighbors.

The move is a strategic and political blow to Putin, who has long complained about NATO’s expansion toward Russia and partly used that as a justification for the invasion.

Russia warned that it would be forced to take “retaliatory measures” to address what it called security threats created by Finland’s membership. It had also warned it would bolster forces near Finland if NATO sends any additional troops or equipment to what is its 31st member country.

The alliance says it poses no threat to Moscow.

Neighboring Sweden, which has avoided military alliances for more than 200 years, has also applied. But objections from NATO members Turkey and Hungary have delayed the process.

Alarmed by Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine last year, Finland, which shares a 1,340 kilometer (832 mile) border with Russia, applied to join in May, setting aside years of military non-alignment to seek protection under the organization’s security umbrella.

“I’m tempted to say this is maybe the one thing that we can thank Mr. Putin for because he once again here precipitated something he claims to want to prevent by Russia’s aggression, causing many countries to believe that they have to do more to look out for their own defense and to make sure that they can deter possible Russian aggression going forward,” U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said just before accepting the documents that made Finland’s membership official.

The U.S. State Department is the repository of NATO texts concerning membership.

Earlier, Russia’s Foreign Ministry said the country “will be forced to take military-technical and other retaliatory measures to counter the threats to our national security arising from Finland’s accession to NATO.”

It said Finland’s move marks “a fundamental change in the situation in Northern Europe, which had previously been one of the most stable regions in the world.”

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, meanwhile, Tuesday that Finland’s membership reflects the alliance’s anti-Russian course and warned that Moscow will respond depending on what weapons NATO allies place there.

But Peskov also sought to play down the impact, noting that Russia has no territorial disputes with Finland.

It’s not clear what additional military resources Russia could send to the Finnish border. Moscow has deployed the bulk of its most capable military units to Ukraine.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg earlier said that no more troops would be sent to Finland unless it asked for help.

“There will be no NATO troops in Finland without the consent of Finland,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters at the alliance’s headquarters in Brussels a few hours before the country joins.

The country is now protected by what Stoltenberg called NATO’s “iron-clad security guarantee,” under which all member countries vow to come to the defense of any ally that comes under attack.

But Stoltenberg refused to rule out the possibility of holding more military exercises there and said that NATO would not allow Russia’s demands to dictate the organization’s decisions.

“We are constantly assessing our posture, our presence. We have more exercises, we have more presence, also in the Nordic area,” he said.

Meanwhile, Finland’s Parliament said that its website was hit with a so-called denial-of-service attack, which made the site hard to use, with many pages not loading and some functions not available.

A pro-Russian hacker group known as NoName057 (16) claimed responsibility, saying the attack was retaliation for Finland joining NATO.

The claim could not be immediately verified.

The hacker group, which has reportedly acted on Moscow’s orders, has taken party in a slew of cyberattacks on the U.S. and its allies in the past. Finnish public broadcaster YLE said the same group hit the Parliament’s site last year.
 
Posts: 32509 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
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We're going to keep poking that bear.


~Alan

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God, Family, Guns, Country

Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan

"Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle
 
Posts: 30409 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
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None of this is going to end well...


____________________________________________________________

If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !!
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Posts: 8888 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Don't Panic
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North Atlantic, Mediterranean, Baltic and Arctic Treaty Organization! Smile
 
Posts: 15031 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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quote:
Originally posted by joel9507:
North Atlantic, Mediterranean, Baltic and Arctic Treaty Organization! Smile


The Baltic Sea and Mediterranean Sea are part of the Atlantic Ocean... The North Atlantic, even. Wink

 
Posts: 32509 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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If I shared a border with Russia I would have joined decades ago.

We are doing many things wrong, Finland joining NATO isn’t one of them.
 
Posts: 7497 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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Did they bring a check when they joined?
Or are we supposed to pay for that too?
 
Posts: 22909 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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As part of being a NATO member, nations are expected to devote at least 2% of their GDP on defense spending. Finland currently spends 2.25%.

That is higher than nearly all NATO members.

Only the US, Greece, Poland, Lithuania, and Estonia spend more than 2.25%, ranging from 2.35% to 3.76%.
 
Posts: 32509 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Internet Guru
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They'll promptly reduce their defense spending.
 
Posts: 1971 | Registered: April 06, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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It must be utterly exhausting for a few of ya'll, going through life being so damn negative all the time. Roll Eyes

Always with the negative waves, man.

 
Posts: 32509 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
Did they bring a check when they joined?
Or are we supposed to pay for that too?

quote:
Originally posted by bdylan:
They'll promptly reduce their defense spending.

With a fraction of the economy of many Western NATO members, Finland instantly leaps ahead of every NATO member except the US for sheer number of artillery and heavy mortar platforms. As we've seen in the last year, when it comes to land warfare, artillery is still the king of the battlefield. While Finland can be accused of being late to the party, they're the ones who've had to live with a shared border with Russia as every ex-Soviet state in Europe now, has stepped up their defense spending, unlike the deadbeats in Berlin, Madrid and many others.
 
Posts: 14656 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
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Well they are purchasing F35 jets, and replacing their assault rifle and marksman’s rifle. Spending might come down a bit after that.
 
Posts: 9964 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
We're going to keep poking that bear.

While I agree that NATO should've kept itself tight back in the 90's and the Visegrad Group should've expanded, we're well past the point of Russia getting agitated with its neighbors.
 
Posts: 14656 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
If I shared a border with Russia I would have joined decades ago.

We are doing many things wrong, Finland joining NATO isn’t one of them.


Exactly!


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
Posts: 6318 | Location: In transit | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
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Outstanding. Now for Sweden.
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
We're going to keep poking that bear.

Um, you do realize that Finland stayed neutral for years and only developed an overwhelmingly pro-NATO sentiment after Putin invaded Ukraine, right?

We're not poking anybody. Putin poked Western Europe, and this is part of Western Europe's reaction to Putin's behavior.

Hand-wringing doesn't justify blaming the victim - or blaming those who see a threat coming and refuse to be victims for somehow "provoking" an attack.
 
Posts: 27293 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
SIGForum Official Hand Model
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Again. Great for Finland. Some of you need to check your alliances I think youre seeing to much red.


"da evil Count Glockula."-Para
 
Posts: 7903 | Location: C-bus, Ohio | Registered: December 17, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
SIGforum's Berlin
Correspondent
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quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
While Finland can be accused of being late to the party, they're the ones who've had to live with a shared border with Russia as every ex-Soviet state in Europe now, has stepped up their defense spending, unlike the deadbeats in Berlin, Madrid and many others.


Everyone might be lucky they're late. Since 2001, most of NATO got on the "expeditionary" bandwagon, ostentatively following American wishes for support in international operations, but commonly as an excuse to save money by ditching heavy legacy systems for conventional warfare which would never happen again in favor of light, deployable forces to chase sandal warriors around sandy places. Finland did some of that, too - about 2,500 of their troops served in Afghanistan - but they never lost sight of their border with Russia. Joining NATO earlier might have led to the same sense of false security and loss of capabilities as in much of the rest of Europe.
 
Posts: 2416 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
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While Sweden's bid to joint NATO has been delayed by the bastard Erdogan, the Scandinavian countries and Finland have agreed to operate their air forces jointly, separate from NATO.
Finland, Denmark and Norway will be buying F-35's:

Finland: 64
Denmark: 27
Norway: 52

Sweden will continue to use SAAB fighter aircraft, but later models will be interoperable with NATO aircraft.

Meanwhile, the little Baltic countries (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) are going to be increasing their defense spending to 3% of GDP.

And Poland will be spending just over 3%, a huge increase from previous years. They are buying almost 1000 K2 tanks from South Korea along with 600 artillery pieces, and 116 Abrams tanks. Poland will also be buying 32 F-35As.

All the above represents a huge, unprecedented commitment to self-defense and active partnership in NATO, paid for by the countries involved.


_________________________
“ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
 
Posts: 18068 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
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^^ It's not just air assets; they're jointly developing service rifles to be produced in Finland (Sako!) and Finland will be buying antitank weapons from Sweden.

http://www.euronews.com/2022/0...-nato-finland-sweden

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...vice-rifle-together/
 
Posts: 27293 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Military Arms Collector
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About damn time. Congrats Finland.
 
Posts: 10833 | Location: Orange County, CA, USA | Registered: March 18, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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