With my current old car project, refurbishing a 21 year old Camry (low miles, great paint), I notice that not all of the tire lug nuts torque the same. A few of them are "off" in the way feel when I torque them down. Most of them are like any other wheel mounting job using a hand torque wrench, they all torque down nice and evenly over two or three passes until the final pass for the remaining 40 ft lbs using a torque wrench. But on this nice old Camry, some of them are not torquing down normally. A few of them feel squishy for lack of a better term. Almost like they may have been stretched in the past past their elastic limit by some wrench monkey with a air wrench while in the hands of the previous owner. The torque on these small cars are only 65 ft lbs, and I'm guessing some tire mounting gorilla hit them with his air wrech at 150 ftp lbs, or more likely 250 or 300 ft lbs or something crazy like that. When I removed them the first time, a few of them were obviously too tight, but nothing that peaked my suspicion, since I didn't have to really work it or stand on it etc., but some had been overtightened for sure.

Have you guys delt with this before, and does that sound like it my be my situation ? I know wheel studs are not really expensive and more or less easy to replace, but I'm hesitant to replace only a few, instead of all, but especially when I'm not sure if this is the problem, or not a problem. I know bad bolts are important because it's the clamping force resulting from the designed elasticity of the bolt itself that imparts the clamping force of the wheel to the hub that is responsible for attaching the wheel to the vehicle.

So do any of you guys know how to diagnose a ruined wheel stud bolt that has exceeded its elastic limit, even though the car is running normally ? Any way to more or less diagnose it without removing the stud from the hub and testing it somehow ?

What do you say ?

I would not be too concerned with it as long as the lug nut moves freely on the stud, if it was stretched the nut would bind up. You could measure the length of the studs from the hub face to see if any are longer.

Is the difference with particular studs, meaning if you try different nuts on that same stud it still feels weird?

Buying new nuts is pretty easy and cheap. Definitely go with a top name brand.

Replacing the studs may be pretty easy. It was on my Subaru. Again, go with a name brand not just any cheap stuff from China.

Are the lug nuts 2-piece lug nuts by any chance? In other words, I'm questioning the lug nut itself giving the weird torque feel which could happen from a 2-piece lug nut.

At work, we flange together (i.e. studs and nuts) oil & gas piping and equipment. We have had people mess it up (e.g. use the wrong torque table). It would take knowing the original stud length and diameter, and measuring both with a micrometer.

Don't neglect looking closely at the wheels. Stands to reason if the wheel nuts are over-torqued that the wheels could have been damaged. Out of round bolt holes may be what feels "squishy."

quote:

Originally posted by rizzle:
I would not be too concerned with it as long as the lug nut moves freely on the stud, if it was stretched the nut would bind up. You could measure the length of the studs from the hub face to see if any are longer.

Wow, great idea. I have to rotate, I will check that. THANKS much.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
Are the lug nuts 2-piece lug nuts by any chance? In other words, I'm questioning the lug nut itself giving the weird torque feel which could happen from a 2-piece lug nut.

At work, we flange together (i.e. studs and nuts) oil & gas piping and equipment. We have had people mess it up (e.g. use the wrong torque table). It would take knowing the original stud length and diameter, and measuring both with a micrometer.

No these nuts one piece machined Toyota OEM lug nuts. Very high quality just looking at them. I used to have two piece (wrapped) lug nuts on my F150, these were factory nuts, and they sucked eggs, esp. after a few rounds with tire changing gorillas. I replaced those guys with hq aftermarket solid machined and chromed lug nuts. Gorilla brand iirc.

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
Don't neglect looking closely at the wheels. Stands to reason if the wheel nuts are over-torqued that the wheels could have been damaged. Out of round bolt holes may be what feels "squishy."

Wow, I'll check that. Thanks much.

The stretched studs will be a little longer than the un-stretched.
If you can measure the length you'll find the bad ones.

.

Be sure to put anti-seize on them too.
Spin them on by hand with the wheel off too. If they are stretched the threads will be farther apart and you should be able to feel that.
If the wheels are steel (not alloy) there will be a bit of flex there too.

If a wheel stud bolt has exceeded its elastic limit it will change the thread pitch in a spot somewhere on the threads. Get a new lug nut and screw it on by hand without the wheel. If the stud has been compromised your fingers will tell you by the feel

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Be sure to put anti-seize on them too.

I would not. Factory torque specifications are for wheels are for clean and dry studs and lug nuts. The torque value with anti-seize will achieve the same bolt stretch / clamp load 20% - 25% lower since friction plays a huge roll in torque specifications.

Another possibility is a tight fit and/or corrosion between the wheel center hole and the hub. This is common with alloy wheels due to the dissimilar metals. If the wheels have corrosion, hit the inside of the hole with a drill & wire wheel. Anti-seize is useful there, but not on the actual threads.

quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:
If a wheel stud bolt has exceeded its elastic limit it will change the thread pitch in a spot somewhere on the threads. Get a new lug nut and screw it on by hand without the wheel. If the stud has been compromised your fingers will tell you by the feel

Wow, a great test. Thanks !

quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Be sure to put anti-seize on them too.

I would not. Factory torque specifications are for wheels are for clean and dry studs and lug nuts. The torque value with anti-seize will achieve the same bolt stretch / clamp load 20% - 25% lower since friction plays a huge roll in torque specifications.

Precisely that 220. I saw that Torque is the product of bolt diameter, tension, and the friction of the bolt thread themselves, and that these three all affect torque linearally. So placing any lubricant on the threads will affect torque drastically, to the point of screwing up the installation for high torque applications like mounting wheels.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
Another possibility is a tight fit and/or corrosion between the wheel center hole and the hub. This is common with alloy wheels due to the dissimilar metals. If the wheels have corrosion, hit the inside of the hole with a drill & wire wheel. Anti-seize is useful there, but not on the actual threads.

This is also more likely if you (wrightd) are doing the torque-down in steps like it sounds like you are.
The wheels are hub-centric. They have a tight fit on the center ring of the brake rotor. If there is a little corrosion, it will take a little oomph to get them seated fully. Not a problem with an impact gun, but you will feel the wheel 'slide' and the torque wrench will slip if you are doing it by hand.

Also, put them on more than hand-tight before you lower or the wheel can shift if it's not seated properly. If full torque is 65ftlb, I'd go 40 or 50 while it's still off the ground to get the wheel seated evenly. The torque spec & pattern are for EVEN clamping, it's not so delicate that you have to sneak up on it like cyl head bolts.

I noticed this exact same thing when I put my wheels back on Sat with a new 18v impact that has a mode that will stop it before it hits much torque. I usually get 1/4-1/2 rotation with the torque wrench, but some went more than that & felt like they 'slipped'. I've been the one taking the wheels off the least 3 or 4 times so I know they weren't hammered on the last few times - the only variable was the new impact setting. Need to learn the trigger like my old trusty IR air impact on how to feather to get calibrated German torque (gutentite). Not having an air line get stuck 1' away after you've already knelt down & starting a lug with the left hand is a tradeoff I'll take.

I would just replace them all. No need to worry about one or two that are stretched.

quote:

Be sure to put anti-seize on them too.

No.
And if they torque properly to the factory specifications all is good.
And if it bugs you they are cheap.
And you should not use an impact on tightening.
And you can't do this on a lift.