Thank you, reloader-1.
These threads start out as legitimate criticism of the current pope. I'm critical of the pope. I've actually started a thread or two critical of the pope.
But they always seem to devolve into general Catholic bashing.
It's annoying but my faith isn't threatened by this pope or anyone else. Yes, all humans are sinners. But we are called to forgiveness and we are all capable of receiving His grace.

I think this has to do with perversion of religion for personal gain, not an individuals faith or religion. All religions have had their share of Posers. See Jim Baker and his “I need to raise a million dollars or God has said he will strike me down” when he wanted a new jet.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
The best thing the Pope has going for him is the Papal Swiss Guard. Their uniforms indicate you might be at a clown convention, but their 220's and 552's are still pretty cool.

wow

As a no-longer-practicing Catholic, I can't disagree with him. This Pope is worse than useless, he's damaging. Nothing good to say about him. The Swiss guard, while steeped in history and tradition, is a bit comical these days. I'm sure in the 1700's, those uniforms were intimidating. These days? Yeah, clown convention. Would I fuck with one of those dudes? Not so much. Do I think they look ridiculous? Well... does the Pope wear a funny hat?

So, you can’t disagree (as a no longer practicing Catholic) that the Swiss Guard’s uniforms are clown-like, but their firearms are cool?

Got it.

Are we being pissy for some reason?

This thread isn’t making much sense.

My wife was raised Catholic, and her local priest was actually very kind in marrying us in a Catholic ceremony even though I wasn't eligible due to a previous divorce. (Military - married at 19 divorced at 21)


He made it clear that he couldn't legally marry us & sign the documents, but he did perform the full ceremony otherwise. We were married at a courthouse for legal purposes the prior weekend. That was a big deal to my wife & her family & I've always appreciated his effort though I'm Protestant.

Regarding the Pope, my wife considers him borderline apostate, we do tithe to church organizations but carefully weigh to whom, the Catholic church at present with the sitting Pope isn't one unfortunately. Have seen several high profile Catholic conservative voices critical of the edicts that issue forth from this Vatican.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
How does even the most rigorously devout catholic not voice their displeasure at the obvious stupidity and falseness of this pos? This commie is no ecumenical leader; he is a communist shill. Nothing more.

My daughter is a Carmelite nun; very traditional, very orthodox, and always very charitable.

These Carmelites would never criticize anyone for any reason, particularly the Pope. I used to give my daughter a gift subscription to the paper L'Osservatore Romano, which reports on the activities, speeches, writings, etc. of the Pope.

The last time the subscription came up for renewal, my daughter told me to let it lapse. While she would never say anything critical, telling me they no longer wanted the paper spoke volumes about how these Carmelites feel about Francis.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So what is the church doing to combat this?

That old commie is the Catholic Church. I'm not sure what you mean.

Who would have thought we'd miss an old Nazi pope?

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Everyone has to pick a side, and this POS has made is very evident which side he stands on. If he wants to drag the catholic church into the camp of the enemy, so be it. I do not see that ending well but whatever.

The next president should as one of his first efforts remove the tax exemption of the Catholic church nationwide. Ya wanna play in the political world, so be it, but you're going to pay taxes on every penny you collect from parishioners and/or from investments of the church.

I assume you would include all churches with any political activity or statements. Which is most of them.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So what is the church doing to combat this?

That old commie is the Catholic Church. I'm not sure what you mean.

No, he's not!

This pope does not speak for me as a Catholic anymore than Joe Biden speaks for me as an American. They are both globalists, and I'm opposed to their agenda.

Biden To Meet With Pope Days Before Pitching 15% Minimum Global Tax And Climate Plan To World Leaders

President Biden will be taking his global taxation and climate change ideas to the Pope, hours before the G20 summit in Rome later this month.

Before seeking the approval of world leaders on his plans for both, Biden may be looking to seek approval from one other major "world leader" about a global minimum tax of 15% and plans to reduce greenhouse gasses, according to Reuters.

White House spokesperson Jen Psaki said: "They will discuss working together on efforts grounded in respect for fundamental human dignity, including ending the COVID-19 pandemic, tackling the climate crisis, and caring for the poor."

President Biden is also expected to meet with French President Emmanuel Macron while they are both in Rome, the report says.

Biden will also be attending the UN climate conference called COP26 in Glasgow on November 1st and 2nd. At that conference, he is expected to announce "key actions" on climate change.

https://www.zerohedge.com/mark...e-plan-world-leaders

I get what you are saying, Chellim1, but he is, as far as the Church is concerned, the Church.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I get what you are saying, Chellim1, but he is, as far as the Church is concerned, the Church.

Sorry JHE, but you are incorrect.

From the Baltimore Catechism:
115 Q. What is the Church?
A. The Church is the congregation of all those who profess the faith of Christ, partake of the same Sacraments, and are governed by their lawful pastors under one visible head.

The pope is the visible head of the Church, but he is not the Church itself.

For me, the best illustration comes from Band of Brothers: You may not necessarily respect the man (and I don't), but you always respect the office.

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Originally posted by CoolRich59:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I get what you are saying, Chellim1, but he is, as far as the Church is concerned, the Church.

Sorry JHE, but you are incorrect.

From the Baltimore Catechism:
115 Q. What is the Church?
A. The Church is the congregation of all those who profess the faith of Christ, partake of the same Sacraments, and are governed by their lawful pastors under one visible head.

The pope is the visible head of the Church, but he is not the Church itself.

I see. And I understand the distinction being drawn.

Is there a way to remove a pope who goes rogue, and decides that Jesus is not the son of the one true God? What about a pope who advocates some lesser apostacy? And what about a pope who advocates social positions that a majority of Catholics disagree with? What about a minority?

I know I am being argumentative, but Chellim is a lawyer, so I expect he used to it. The point is that he is the boss of the church, and there is little that other Catholics can do to oppose him, as I understand it.

tell me again why the Pope is relevant?

quote:

Is there a way to remove a pope who goes rogue, and decides that Jesus is not the son of the one true God? What about a pope who advocates some lesser apostacy? And what about a pope who advocates social positions that a majority of Catholics disagree with? What about a minority?

Officially?
No, a pope cannot be impeached or otherwise removed from office. He may resign if he chooses to do so, but he may not be "forced out". Officially. He is pope until he dies.
It is widely believed that several have been murdered, which speeds up the process.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

Is there a way to remove a pope who goes rogue, and decides that Jesus is not the son of the one true God? What about a pope who advocates some lesser apostacy? And what about a pope who advocates social positions that a majority of Catholics disagree with? What about a minority?

I know I am being argumentative, but Chellim is a lawyer, so I expect he used to it. The point is that he is the boss of the church, and there is little that other Catholics can do to oppose him, as I understand it.

I don't believe there is any way to remove a pope. I look at his papacy as a burden to be borne patiently and gracefully (to the extent possible!).

Without getting too deep into theology or history, my understanding is that the Church is protected by God from a pope formally teaching heresy as dogma. As far as Francis's comments re BLM, the environment, etc., they are just his personal opinions and I just ignore them.

I too think comparing BLM to the Good Samaritan is quite dubious. We know in the parable Jesus says to love your neighbors as yourselves. Rioting, looting, destroying public and private property, and injuring and killing people in no way meets the standard of loving your neighbor. No amount of the ends justify the means can excuse this behavior as being Good Samaritan in nature. Pretty shameful comparison for the pope to make.

But if we allow the pope his comparison and look to the actions in his life - then in essence he is the priest that was going down the road, and when seeing the man that had been beaten and robbed, he passed by on the other side.

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Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:
I too think comparing BLM to the Good Samaritan is quite dubious. We know in the parable Jesus says to love your neighbors as yourselves. Rioting, looting, destroying public and private property, and injuring and killing people in no way meets the standard of loving your neighbor. No amount of the ends justify the means can excuse this behavior as being Good Samaritan in nature. Pretty shameful comparison for the pope to make.

But if we allow the pope his comparison and look to the actions in his life - then in essence he is the priest that was going down the road, and when seeing the man that had been beaten and robbed, he passed by on the other side.

Comparing Floyd to the Samaritan requires that Floyd was acting intentionally to benefit another, and if the parallel is to be close, to benefit another who we would not ordinarily expect the benefactor to help.

Of course, Floyd did none of what happened to make him notable intentionally and certainly didn't do any of it to benefit anyone else. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and what happened to him was the result only of his bad choices and bad luck. I hesitate to call him a victim, but it certainly wasn't intent to help anyone that motivated him.

Even if you think Floyd was a totally innocent victim, he wasn't a Good Samaritan, as he did none of the things he did to help any other person.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jhe888,

I believe this Pope is a heretic.

Here is an interesting book about the undoing of Pope Benedict and the orchestrated rise of Francis.

https://www.amazon.com/Catholi...nedict/dp/1688555374

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Originally posted by darthfuster:
I believe this Pope is a heretic.

As do many.