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That is replacing conventional pipe or tubing. does it eliminate the need for water hammer relief devices? Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency. Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first | ||
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Striker in waiting |
Not an expert, but I know I've seen arrestors labeled as "PEX-compliant", so probably? -Rob I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888 A=A | |||
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| Member |
I've dealt with PEX for over 20 years and wouldn't buy a house with PEX in it. If you have the opportunity, go with Copper plumbing, it is much better in the long run. But to answer your question, water hammering is a much more serious situation with Pex, and I've seen it blow the PEX push lock fittings off a lot of times in my industry. | |||
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| As Extraordinary as Everyone Else  |
I have had the exact opposite experience in all the homes we’ve built. Not one single leak or other issue and we’ve probably run a few hundred miles of the stuff. Highly recommend. As far as the water hammer is concerned we’ve not needed to use them but not sure if PEX has played into that or not. When my plumber first brought it to my attention I had the regional sales rep come to my office. He gave me a piece and told me to fill it with water and stick it in my freezer for a week and see what happens. I did and there was no cracking or leakage whatsoever. That sold me. ------------------ Eddie Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina | |||
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| Member |
keep it in the dark. I saw it in the under area of a house on stilts dry rot away like cheap plastic. Not up in the joists under the floor, but lower to the ground where it could catch the UV at some percentage of the day it turned to dust. | |||
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| Member |
I've been dealing with it for over 20 years now...…..we started seeing it in the mid 90's. Here's what I've experienced. In chlorinated city water...the more chlorinated the worse it seems to become......…. it tends to get very hard and brittle over time, as do the the push lock fittings and eventually it or they snap...…I've changed some that was so brittle you could stick a piece between thumb and middle finger and snap it with by pressing your index finger down....My plumbing buddies here, have said they see the same issue on houses here....….. In large temperature swings the pex pipe doesn't have an issue, but if the ends/fittings are crimped these eventually either cut into the pipe and become loose, or become loose from the expansion and contraction of the pipe and will leak there. The major thing I see, because on a yacht it's SOP to shut off the freshwater pump when not In use. Well, when you get water pressure again, or any hammering, push lock fittings will blow off...…I see this often. Also UV kills it, and I can't tell you how many contractors I've seen driving around with it baking in the sun in the bed of their pick up truck for days. IMO it's the next CPVC. That being said, copper has a proven life of at least 60 years and usually when it does leak on 60 year old homes, it's not a full flow leak like the pex failures I see. What's the age of the houses you've built with it so far? | |||
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At Jacob's Well |
Jimmy, Most of what you're describing sounds like the early problems that were encountered when PEX first became widespread in the US. Everything you've described, except perhaps UV embrittlement, has been addressed by newer PEX formulations. J Rak Chazak Amats | |||
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| Member |
Jaaron11. I'm still seeing failures on the new stuff. I deal with a lot of brand new yachts (in addition to older ones). On the new ones, I'm still seeing leaking fittings, just the same as before, no issues with the pipe itself. I've only had one fitting blow off completely in the past year on a new boat, usually the fittings that fail are leaking a fairly good amount but not gloriously blowing off like the older ones did. But, It's also possible the newer formulations, just aren't old enough yet to have the other issues. None of the PEX on yachts sees any daylight. That being said, Copper is proven to go 60 years or longer with a very low failure rate. The other thing I see, with house builders. Is when they are (high end homes) and were using copper, a real licensed plumber was installing it because they had to braise every fitting. Now the builders or licensed plumbers are having any unlicensed plumbers helper run the pex pipes, and then an actual plumber just simply eyeballs the fittings and plumbing, or puts the fittings on. Pex, is not friendly to chafing or not being supported properly and it definitely has a higher failure rate compared to copper. Bottom line, if PEX was the same price as copper plumbing in new home builds, nobody would be using it. | |||
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Caribou gorn |
Well, duh. If brick was the same price as vinyl siding, nobody would use vinyl. If travertine was the same price as linoleum, etc. That doesn't really mean anything. I don't know anybody that says Pex is better than copper, fwiw. I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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| Member |
I use Wirsbo Aquapex and it is a completely different type of Pex. I haven't had, nor heard of any issues with it. Being a certified installer, I can give a 25 year warranty backed by Wirsbo. I certainly wish they would have had it available when I built my house! _________________________________________________ "Once abolish the God, and the Government becomes the God." --- G.K. Chesterton | |||
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Spread the Disease |
Out here, hell no. The super hard water is way too corrosive to copper. I've had zero issues with PEX, including during extremely cold weather. ________________________________________ -- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -- | |||
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Certified All Positions |
No. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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| Member |
Ok, but you don't know me. Pex is better than copper. Will not burst under freezing conditions. Will not corrode like copper. Anybody that's dealt with sulfur water will prefer cpvc or pex. Nothing wrong with either one, as long as it's installed correctly. Pex and copper materials the same Price? Ok, pex can be installed much much quicker! *Add this will likely be my one and only post in this thread. As the pissing matches never end on this subject. | |||
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Republican in training |
At least you don't have polybutylene water lines like I do in this house...  Scary. Somebody hold me...-------------------- I like Sigs and HK's, and maybe Glocks | |||
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| Move Up or Move Over |
Jimmy, I'm curious, on any of the boats was Uponor used with expansion fittings? Or, were the failures all crimp fittings? I've run a lot of copper, both water lines and refrigerant lines. I've also run a fair amount of Uponor. I think both materials have a place. Now that I'm rehabbing an old farm Uponor has become my close friend. We had a new well dug and 30 minutes after starting I had 300' of 2" pex in the trench and holding pressure. And, as Arc pointed out with a single word, you still need to install shock arrestors as code calls for. | |||
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| Member |
Yes, some of them have uponor. On the yachts most have gotten away from crimps. The crimp failures were a bit slower in leakage than the push fit, they'd just spray some between the fitting and the pex, or actually leak where the crimp dug into it, but just a little bit. The push fit fittings blow off or spray between them and the pex like a sprinkler. Each yacht builder is different in what they use as well as from different countries. A lot of the fittings are push fit fittings and plastic from several companies. The yachts manufacturers I deal with are either American, European, British, or Asian (Taiwan/China) I deal with less of the Asian yachts. I don't see the bronze push fit fittings much or expansion fittings as much. I believe the uponor one I dealt with last had the expansion fittings in bronze.This message has been edited. Last edited by: jimmy123x, | |||
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Don't Panic |
Ask a real estate agent you trust what the effect on resale value is, copper-piping vs. PEX. There were a rash of failures here when PEX was first done, and unknowingly contractors left it in the sun (because, back then, who knew?) so when pipes burst later the issue was very widespread and gained notoriety. So home buyers started asking about piping early in the process. There's no real way, after it's installed, to know how carefully it was handled during installation. Some contractors and DIY folks keep track and handle it correctly and others - who knows? It's just a risk and all things being equal, buyers prefer less risk. So, it might be better than copper in some situations, but even if you are being careful about UV exposure and it's been installed and handled right, the next prospective owner won't know that. Bottom line: you may save money during the project but could lose that and maybe more when the house gets sold. | |||
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Member |
One of my friends owns a smaller plumbing company. He just finished his $700,000/5200 square foot house earlier this year. Did he use Pex? No. The stuff is cheaper, faster and easier though. ——————————————— The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1 | |||
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Res ipsa loquitur |
I've had it for 17 years in my house with hard water. We are getting ready to finish the basement so I'll have our plumber look at everything. If there is a problem, now's a good time to check. __________________________ | |||
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| Member |
Checkout the following: Matt Risinger Pex vs. Copper vs. CPVC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywtnOq1ExqQ&t=40s Matt has several videos on YouTube testing various fittings, pressure/burst testing, etc. on various pipe materials. Pretty well done. There are various types of Pex so educate yourself on what you really want to get. ---------- “Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf | |||
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