I had a horrible case of the flue about 20 years ago. It was so bad that I didn’t even want to smoke. For an addicted cigarette smoker that is sick indeed. But that enabled me to finally quit cigarette smoking. Since then I’ve always had the annual flu shot – and have never had the flu since.

Flu can be fatal – especially for the young and the old.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:


It never ceases to amaze me that some people are afraid of basic immunization. Sure, one can still get the flu, shingles, and pneumonia after being vaccinated, but it does lower the odds of catching any of these diseases.

And some make educated decisions based on the extremely poor record of the pharmaceutical industry "guessing" the correct strain to focus on.

I haven't had the flu in decades. I've NEVER had a flu shot and do not ever plan to get one. I am not afraid of immunization, I just choose to educate myself and not follow along blindly the recommendations of an entire industry whose track record for honesty gets worse every year.

Mu wife, a teacher, gets a shot every year. She also gets the flu almost every year. Is it a result of the shot? Maybe she is in a hi risk environment? I choose to think it is the latter but I have no way of proving it.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
I wonder if... the prevalence of the vaccine just causes another strain of the virus to spread.

Influenza exists in many different strains and it mutates continually and very rapidly. That’s why developing an effective vaccine every year involves so much guesswork.

And that mutation is why I never get a flu shot. I’ve only had the flu twice in my 47 years.

quote:

Originally posted by AirmanJeff:
It's interesting that they change flu shots based on age. I have never heard of that. Is that something new?

I also found it interesting that I was least affected by any flu shot I have ever gotten in my life this year. No sore arm, no sore throat, nothing. It was the first year I had zero reaction to it.

Normally after a flu shot, I have a day of queasiness, never been sick, but like you, this year.,nada ...no effects....which is good.

I hope all in Sig Forum stay well this winter.

Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Oh boy.

I got a flu shot once about 16 years ago and had an unpleasant reaction to it. I was fine for about half an hour, then suddenly dizzy weak and nauseous for another half hour, then it all went away. A couple years later I got another on doctor's advice when I was being treated for cancer and my immune system was compromised. Otherwise I don't get them, and rarely get sick, and never seriously so.

I have a friend whose immune system is crappy due to Hep-C and whatnot. She catches every bug that comes along and takes significantly longer than the average to get over them. She's also a terrible patient.

quote:

Originally posted by mark_a:
And some make educated decisions based on the extremely poor record of the pharmaceutical industry "guessing" the correct strain to focus on.

This ^^^^^

quote:

Originally posted by mark_a:
... I just choose to educate myself and not follow along blindly the recommendations of an entire industry whose track record for honesty gets worse every year.

Yup.

When I hurt my back my doc at the time was ready to schedule me for cutting. My wife gave me a homeopathic remedy, performed a thing called acupressure, and I resumed flexibility exercises. Problem solved. The doc was astonished.

For mild depression I had another doc wanted to put me on one of those psychoactive drugs you can't just quit. I went with St. John's Wart, instead. No side-effects. Subsequently I started working out regularly and then didn't need even that, any longer.

When my testosterone was found to be low that same doc wanted to put me on artificial testosterone. I instead went with an herbal solution that reportedly worked for many men. Problem solved--without the potential side-effects of artificial testosterone supplementation.

When my most recent doc informed me my prostate was enlarged (which I had already guessed) and suggested one of the popular drugs to counteract it, I instead again went with an herbal solution. Problem solved--again without the nasty side-effects western medicine drugs can create.

Most recently: The Big Vaping Scare. Now the AMA has come out supporting banning electronic cigarettes entirely. Funny thing: I bought a pulse oximeter when I took up vaping a bit over two months ago. (After not having smoked for over nine years.) My blood oxygen level is, if anything, up a percentage point. So much for the AMA's recommendations.

For cold and flu season my wife and I each bump our daily vitamin C and we keep a bottle of elderberry extract concentrate in the fridge. Whenever either one of us thinks we might be coming down with something we have a big ol' tablespoon of that. Symptoms go away. False alarm or does it work? Dunno.

Our sinuses get funky: Salt water rinse--as opposed to pharmaceuticals. (We do use OTC antihistamines for allergies.)

I have what I feel to be a healthy distrust of the western health "care" industry. My suspicion is it's mainly caring for its own pocketbook.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Oh boy.

What?

Vaccines in general are not 100% effective, and "herd immunity" is a big part of why they are as beneficial as they are.

I guess you can choose not to believe in science if it makes you happy.

No flu shots for me since Uncle Sam made me take my last one in 1995, I as well do not trust the pharma industry

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Oh boy.

What?

Vaccines in general are not 100% effective, and "herd immunity" is a big part of why they are as beneficial as they are.

I guess you can choose not to believe in science if it makes you happy.

I believe in science, I’d just like to see data to back your claim.

quote:

Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Um, no. 9-45 million are sick with flu in the US each year. Your blanket statement is not possibly factual; for it to true, you’d have to only interact with those that have been immunized not to get sick. There are many other factors such as avoiding sick people, staying clean, staying otherwise healthy through diet and personal habits, etc. And as I said earlier, I’ve known plenty of folks that got the shot that later got the flu anyway. Try again.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Oh boy.

What?

Vaccines in general are not 100% effective, and "herd immunity" is a big part of why they are as beneficial as they are.

I guess you can choose not to believe in science if it makes you happy.

I believe in science, I’d just like to see data to back your claim.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Um, no. 9-45 million are sick with flu in the US each year. Your blanket statement is not possibly factual; for it to true, you’d have to only interact with those that have been immunized not to get sick. There are many other factors such as avoiding sick people, staying clean, staying otherwise healthy through diet and personal habits, etc. And as I said earlier, I’ve known plenty of folks that got the shot that later got the flu anyway. Try again.

I said "part of the reason."

To contradict my statement, one of the following must be true:

1. You are completely immune to the flu.

2. The flu vaccine does nothing to reduce the number of people who get the flu.

3. Increased exposure to the flu does not increase risk of infection.

Which is it?

^^^^^So no data. Understood.

quote:

Originally posted by Erick85:

Actually, no, it does not GIVE you the flu. You may have an elevated immune response, which can give flu like symptoms, much like clubleaf mentioned earlier in this thread. Happened to me as well a few years back. Few days, I felt like crap, but it wasn’t the full blown flu. If someone gets the flu after getting the flu shot, they were either exposed shortly before or shortly after getting the shot.

Don't trouble them with actual science. Just enjoy their anecdotes about what happened to them, personally.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
^^^^^So no data. Understood.

Usually, in science, the position that doesn't make sense is the one that most requires evidence.

But sure, here you go. First thing that came up after 15 seconds of searching.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870375/

A mass vaccination campaign on schoolchildren reduced influenza rates in unvaccinated elderly in those communities vs. communities without the mass vaccination campaign.

The paper cites a number of other studies with similar results.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
^^^^^So no data. Understood.

Usually, in science, the position that doesn't make sense is the one that most requires evidence.

But sure, here you go. First thing that came up after 15 seconds of searching.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870375/

A mass vaccination campaign on schoolchildren reduced influenza rates in unvaccinated elderly in those communities vs. communities without the mass vaccination campaign.

The paper cites a number of other studies with similar results.

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Oh boy.

What?

Vaccines in general are not 100% effective, and "herd immunity" is a big part of why they are as beneficial as they are.

I guess you can choose not to believe in science if it makes you happy.

I believe in science, I’d just like to see data to back your claim.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Um, no. 9-45 million are sick with flu in the US each year. Your blanket statement is not possibly factual; for it to true, you’d have to only interact with those that have been immunized not to get sick. There are many other factors such as avoiding sick people, staying clean, staying otherwise healthy through diet and personal habits, etc. And as I said earlier, I’ve known plenty of folks that got the shot that later got the flu anyway. Try again.

I said "part of the reason."

To contradict my statement, one of the following must be true:

1. You are completely immune to the flu.

2. The flu vaccine does nothing to reduce the number of people who get the flu.

3. Increased exposure to the flu does not increase risk of infection.

Which is it?

You left off number 4- flu shots may or may not protect you from getting the flu as I have seen first hand. And as I said before, I’ve gotten the flu twice in the last 20 years despite being in an occupation that puts me in contact with a lot of people. Perhaps I have a stronger immune system for fending off bugs naturally. Who can say for sure with any degree of accuracy either way?

“annual pandemic”

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Oh boy.

What?

Vaccines in general are not 100% effective, and "herd immunity" is a big part of why they are as beneficial as they are.

I guess you can choose not to believe in science if it makes you happy.

I believe in science, I’d just like to see data to back your claim.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Part of the reason all you "I don't get the flu shot and have never gotten the flu" folks haven't gotten the flu is because lots of OTHER people getting the flu shot reduces the prevalence of flu in the overall population and reduces your exposure.

Um, no. 9-45 million are sick with flu in the US each year. Your blanket statement is not possibly factual; for it to true, you’d have to only interact with those that have been immunized not to get sick. There are many other factors such as avoiding sick people, staying clean, staying otherwise healthy through diet and personal habits, etc. And as I said earlier, I’ve known plenty of folks that got the shot that later got the flu anyway. Try again.

I said "part of the reason."

To contradict my statement, one of the following must be true:

1. You are completely immune to the flu.

2. The flu vaccine does nothing to reduce the number of people who get the flu.

3. Increased exposure to the flu does not increase risk of infection.

Which is it?

You left off number 4- flu shots may or may not protect you from getting the flu as I have seen first hand. And as I said before, I’ve gotten the flu twice in the last 20 years despite being in an occupation that puts me in contact with a lot of people. Perhaps I have a stronger immune system for fending off bugs naturally. Who can say for sure with any degree of accuracy either way?

Obviously the flu vaccine is not 100% effective. No one says it is. Given I was talking about people who don't get vaccinated, your number 4 is either not relevant or already covered by number 2.

There is a huge body of statistical evidence that across large numbers of people, getting the flu shot makes you less likely to get the flu.