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Just mobilize it
posted
So the time has come to get a laptop as my Dell PC is from 2009 and I have a Chromebook though it is just okay and my daughter needs it a lot for school. I have always wanted an Apple laptop and was wondering which ones you all would recommend. I don’t need a ton of storage I just have pictures, music, and a few dozen documents. I don’t game. I like to watch movies and will most likely stream Netflix and what not so a fast processor would be great. I’ll be using the computer mainly though for a real estate business and for the usual online stuff so I’m sure most laptops would fit the bill, I just want one that is a little more than what I need so it won’t phase out too quickly.

I’ve read that the Apple computers stay viable for much longer than their PC counterparts. Is this true?

I found one on Amazon, the 2020 air. Is this one a really good one as it seems to have great reviews?
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-M...b3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
 
Posts: 4613 | Registered: July 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
If you see me running
try to keep up
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I bought a MacBook Air last year before Christmas. I have zero complaints. I also have a Toshiba laptop and two PC's but the MacBook gets used most.
 
Posts: 4131 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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quote:
I’ve read that the Apple computers stay viable for much longer than their PC counterparts. Is this true?


No
 
Posts: 22952 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That is exactly the one you should get.

Unless you want to upgrade to 512 gig drive and 8 core GPU for $250.

But realistically for what you describe the one you have flagged will be great.
 
Posts: 1995 | Location: DFW Texas | Registered: March 13, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
I’ve read that the Apple computers stay viable for much longer than their PC counterparts. Is this true?


No


Respectfully disagree. I can run a MacBook for 8 years with zero problems and free software updates the whole time and then sell it for over half of what I paid for it.
 
Posts: 1995 | Location: DFW Texas | Registered: March 13, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glorious SPAM!
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quote:
I’ve read that the Apple computers stay viable for much longer than their PC counterparts. Is this true?


In my experience, yes. I used to be a Dell/Windows guy. And I used to have to buy a new laptop about every 3 years or so because it would die. Always a hardware issue, not a Windows issue. I wasn't buying cheap laptops either. My last one was a 2012 Dell XPS 13" that cost about $1200. Died right on the three year mark, bad motherboard. I'm a decent hardware guy, I can fix electronics. I just couldn't get the part. So in 2015 I finally went Mac Air 13". It was $1500 at the time but now almost 7 years later? Well worth it. It literally runs the same now as the day I opened the box. The learning curve was a little different but I got the hang of it. I honestly plan on keeping it for another 3-5 years. And even then I expect it will still be chugging along just fine. If I do get another it will be just because.
 
Posts: 10635 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've had a 13"MBP w/Retina since 2012....still going strong, boots-up as fast as when it was new and the Retina screen has remained quite sharp.

The only issue I've had is a bit too much lint had gotten into the track-pad. Removed the rear cover, a few blasts of compressed air and some alcohol on a q-tip and it was fine.
 
Posts: 14699 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
outta the oven!

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I used to be a diehard Apple guy and would advocate for them every chance I got.

While I still love my iPhone I’m not so sure Macs are that great a deal anymore. You will pay easily 2-4x more for a MacBook than what you can get in a decent PC laptop.

I have an Acer I bought recently from Amazon for around $700 that’s been absolutely great. It’s screaming fast.


 
Posts: 33895 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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quote:
Originally posted by straightshooter01:
quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
I’ve read that the Apple computers stay viable for much longer than their PC counterparts. Is this true?


No


Respectfully disagree. I can run a MacBook for 8 years with zero problems and free software updates the whole time and then sell it for over half of what I paid for it.


That's nice but if you know about Apples position on "Right to Repair" then you know why Apple repairs are uber expensive.
Other hardware (non-apple) regardless of the designated OS the repair process is much more competitive.
Apple does not support competitive and fair repair practices and Microsoft does ~ for example.
All of this has nothing to do whether you "like" Apple or MS ~ not debating that here, do what you want.
 
Posts: 22952 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
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quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
While I still love my iPhone I’m not so sure Macs are that great a deal anymore. You will pay easily 2-4x more for a MacBook than what you can get in a decent PC laptop.


That was before Apple started using their processors in Macs. The M1 has literally changed the marketplace. You have a very lower power chip inside of a laptop that can edit 4K video is real time with few, if any, stutters better than some multi-thousand dollar workstations, including their Intel Xeon MacPro. My M1 MacbookAir has lasted over 12 hours of game, web, and video projects at work (air cooled/no fan) while competing Intel I5 and I7 chips die out around 5-6 hours with howling fan noise.

And unlike Windows on ARM systems, my Macbook runs any Intel Mac program through emulation with no stutters or slowdowns while Snapdragon Windows machines can’t run 64 bit x86 programs and run a lot of 32 bit programs quite badly.

When Apple was using Intel, the Apple Tax was a little outrageous. Now using their own chips, the prices are the same or a little cheaper and outperforming desktops on AC power.

We’re still in the first generation, and there’s been very few hiccups. My biggest issue is that while iPhone and iPad apps can be run on the Macs, app programmers have to opt in. The Kindle iPad app is leagues better than the Mac app, but I can’t load the better iPad app because Amazon refuses to op in and wants people to use the Kindle Web App while doesn’t let you download books in case your internet goes out.

This future is going to be very interesting.
 
Posts: 4229 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
bigger government
= smaller citizen
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Dan's first paragraph is spot on. I get 20hrs or so out of my 8C/16g MBA




“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.”—H.L. Mencken
 
Posts: 9163 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
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fwiw, I have a 2012 Macbook Pro and a 2012 Mac Mini still going strong, seeing regular use, still like new-ish, and the MBPro battery has been outrageously amazing, lasts ages, works well down to 1%.

They're both fantastic, still.
 
Posts: 25613 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by LincolnSixEcho:

...I found one on Amazon, the 2020 air. Is this one a really good one as it seems to have great reviews?
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-M...b3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl



That's pretty much the same 2020 Air that I have been using for the last year or so only mine may have a different processor (1.1 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5) and I have no complaint.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 7122 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I just bought a MacBook Pro 13” with 1TB hard drive, 16 GB RAM and the M1 chip and it’s great. I don’t use 10% of its capability most of the time, and I’ve probably never used more than 50% of its capacity but I love the fact that I never hear the fan and I can go all week without charging it. I’ve ripped some DVDs with it and it doesn’t bat an eye ripping a DVD while doing other things, having multiple browsers open, etc.It is only slightly nicer than my pro grade dell laptop that is issued to me by work, but it is still constructed better. It’s performance seems better as well. My only complaints with it quite honestly are my occasional lack of familiarity with the MAC interface which causes me to have to really think about what I’m doing when it would be second nature on a windows machine, but that’s hardly the fault of the computer, merely the operator. I would highly recommend a new M1 chipped Apple laptop.




“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
 
Posts: 5583 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: February 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
If you see me running
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by straightshooter01:
quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
I’ve read that the Apple computers stay viable for much longer than their PC counterparts. Is this true?


No


Respectfully disagree. I can run a MacBook for 8 years with zero problems and free software updates the whole time and then sell it for over half of what I paid for it.

Yep, my daughter abuses hers. I saw how she treats it and it won't die - that's why I bought one.
 
Posts: 4131 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
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quote:
Originally posted by straightshooter01:
Respectfully disagree. I can run a MacBook for 8 years with zero problems and free software updates the whole time and then sell it for over half of what I paid for it.


If the programs you used in the MacBook were constantly increasing their capabilities and usefulness and therefore their memory and processor requirements like PC programs do, you wouldn't be able to get away with more than 3 years or so and at the end of that time, it wouldn't be worth much, same as a PC.

That's the biggest difference between the two platforms.

I'm speaking from experience using niche market programs to program situation rooms for Homeland Security using a PC over a 20+ year time frame.
 
Posts: 10626 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
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I replace my MacBook every 6 years - battery usually degrades by then. Then, it gets used at the plant to print invoices, etc.

All I do is spreadsheets, word processing, and filing though
 
Posts: 5748 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Miami Beach, FL | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
I'm speaking from experience using niche market programs to program situation rooms for Homeland Security using a PC over a 20+ year time frame.


That's something else M1 has changed. The processor and the RAM are on the same chip.

https://www.howtogeek.com/7018...-apples-m1-arm-macs/

quote:
How “Unified Memory” Speeds Up Apple’s M1 ARM Macs
Ian Paul @ianpaul
Nov 30, 2020, 6:40 am EDT | 7 min read

Apple is rethinking how components should exist and operate inside a laptop. With M1 chips in new Macs, Apple has a new “Unified Memory Architecture” (UMA) that dramatically speeds up memory performance. Here’s how memory works on Apple Silicon.

How Apple Silicon Handles RAM

In case you haven’t already heard the news, Apple announced a new slate of Macs in November 2020. The new MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and Mac Mini models are using an ARM-based processor custom-designed by Apple called the M1. This change was long expected and is the culmination of Apple’s decade spent designing ARM-based processors for the iPhone and iPad.

The M1 is a system on a chip (SoC), which means that there’s not just a CPU inside the processor, but also other key components, including the GPU, I/O controllers, Apple’s Neural Engine for AI tasks, and, most importantly for our purposes, the physical RAM is part of that same package. To be clear, the RAM isn’t on the same Silicon as the fundamental parts of the SoC. Instead, it sits off to the side as pictured above.

Adding RAM to the SoC is nothing new. Smartphone SoCs can include RAM, and Apple’s decision to put the RAM modules off to the side is something we’ve been seeing from the company since at least 2018. If you look at this iFixit teardown for the iPad Pro 11, you can see the RAM sitting to the side with the A12X processor.

What’s different now is that this approach is also coming to the Mac, a full-fledged computer designed for heavier workloads.

The Basics: What Are RAM and Memory?

RAM stands for Random Access Memory. It’s the primary component of system memory, which is a temporary storage space for data your computer is using right now. This can be anything from necessary files for running the operating system to a spreadsheet you’re currently editing to the contents of open browser tabs.

When you decide to open a text file, your CPU receives those instructions as well as which program to use. The CPU then takes all the data it needs for these operations and loads the necessary information into memory. Then, the CPU manages changes made to the file by accessing and manipulating what’s in memory.

Typically, RAM exists in the form of these long, thin sticks that fit into specialized slots on your laptop or desktop motherboard, as pictured above. RAM can also be a simple square or rectangular module that is soldered onto the motherboard. Either way, RAM for PCs and Macs have traditionally been a discrete component with its own space on the motherboard.

M1 RAM: The Discrete Roommate

So the physical RAM modules are still separate entities, but they are sitting on the same green substrate as the processor. “Big whoop,” I hear you saying. “What’s the big deal?” Well, first of all, this means faster access to memory, which inevitably improves performance. In addition, Apple is tweaking how memory is used within the system.

Apple calls its approach a “Unified Memory Architecture” (UMA). The basic idea is that the M1’s RAM is a single pool of memory that all parts of the processor can access. First, that means that if the GPU needs more system memory, it can ramp up usage while other parts of the SoC ramp down. Even better, there’s no need to carve out portions of memory for each part of the SoC and then shuttle data between the two spaces for different parts of the processor. Instead, the GPU, CPU, and other parts of the processor can access the same data at the same memory address.

To see why this is important, imagine the broad strokes of how a video game runs. The CPU first receives all the instructions for the game and then offloads the data that the GPU needs to the graphics card. The graphics card then takes all that data and works on it within its own processor (the GPU) and built-in RAM.

Even if you have a processor with integrated graphics, the GPU typically maintains its own chunk of memory, as does the processor. They both work on the same data independently and then shuttle the results back and forth between their memory fiefdoms. If you drop the requirement to move data back and forth, it’s easy to see how keeping everything in the same virtual filing cabinet could improve performance.

For example, here’s how Apple describes its unified memory architecture on the official M1 website:

“M1 also features our unified memory architecture, or UMA. M1 unifies its high‑bandwidth, low‑latency memory into a single pool within a custom package. As a result, all of the technologies in the SoC can access the same data without copying it between multiple pools of memory. This dramatically improves performance and power efficiency. Video apps are snappier. Games are richer and more detailed. Image processing is lightning fast. And your entire system is more responsive.”

And it’s not just that every component can access the same memory at the same place. As Chris Mellor points out over at The Register, Apple is using high-bandwidth memory here. The memory is closer to the CPU (and other components), and it’s just faster to access than it would be to access a traditional RAM chip connected to a motherboard via a socket interface.

Apple Isn’t the First Company to Try Unified Memory

Apple isn’t the first company to approach this problem. For example, NVIDIA started offering developers a hardware and software solution called Unified Memory about six years ago.

For NVIDIA, Unified Memory provides a single memory location that is “accessible from any processor in a system.” In NVIDIA’s world, as far as the CPU and GPU are concerned, they are going to the same location for the same data. However, behind the scenes, the system is paging the required data between separate CPU and GPU memory.

As far as we know, Apple is not taking an approach using behind-the-scenes techniques. Instead, each portion of the SoC is able to access the exact same location for data in memory.

The bottom line with Apple’s UMA is better performance from faster access to RAM and a shared memory pool that removes performance penalties for moving data around to different addresses.

How Much RAM Do You Need?

Apple’s solution is not all sunshine and happiness. Since the M1 has the RAM modules so deeply integrated, you can’t upgrade it after purchase. If you choose an 8GB MacBook Air, there’s no increasing that device’s RAM at a later date. To be fair, upgrading the RAM hasn’t been something you could do on a MacBook for a while now. It was something previous Mac Minis could do, but not the new M1 versions.

The first M1 Macs top out at 16GB—you can get an M1 Mac with 8GB or 16GB of memory, but you can’t get any more than that. It’s no longer just a matter of sticking a RAM module into a slot.

So how much RAM do you need? When we’re talking about Windows PCs, the general advice is that 8GB is more than enough for basic computing tasks. Gamers are well-advised to bump that up to 16GB, and “prosumer” activity likely needs to double again for tasks like editing large, high-resolution video files.

Similarly, with M1 Macs, the base model with 8GB should be enough for most people. In fact, it may cover even the most hardcore of day-to-day uses. It’s hard to say, though, as most of the benchmarks we’ve seen take the M1 to task in synthetic benchmarks that push the CPU or GPU.

What really matters is how well an M1 Mac handles keeping multiple programs and a slew of browser tabs open at once. This doesn’t just test hardware, mind you, as software optimizations can go a long way toward improving this kind of performance, which is why there’s been such a focus on benchmarks that can really push the hardware.

However, in the end, we’d guess that most people just want to see how the new Macs handle “real world” usage.

Stephen Hall over at 9to5 Mac saw impressive results with an M1 MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM. To get the laptop to start faltering, he had to have one Safari window open with 24 website tabs, another six Safari windows playing 2160p video, and Spotify running in the background. He also took a screenshot. “Only then did the computer finally grind to a halt,” Hall said.

Over at TechCrunch, Matthew Panazarino went even further with an M1 MacBook Pro rocking 16GB of RAM. He opened 400 tabs in Safari (plus he had a few other programs open), and it ran just fine, without any issues. Interestingly, he tried the same experiment with Chrome, but Chrome flamed out. But, he said, the rest of the system kept performing well despite the issues with Google’s browser. In fact, during his tests, he even noticed the laptop using swap space at one point, with no noticeable dip in performance.

My note: Chrome was released optimized for M1 about 1 week after launch. This fixed 99% of Chrome performance issues.

When your PC runs out of RAM, it carves out available SSD or hard drive storage as a temporary pool of memory. This can betray a noticeable slowdown in performance, though not with M1 Macs, it seems.

These are just casual day-to-day experiences, not formal tests. Still, they are likely representative of what to expect for intense day-to-day use, and given the tweaked approach to memory, 8GB of RAM should be just fine for most people who aren’t opening browser tabs in the hundreds.

However, if you find yourself editing large, multi-gigabyte images or video files while also browsing a few dozen tabs and streaming a movie in the background all on an external monitor, then perhaps choosing the 16GB model is the better choice.


Like I said, this is still Gen 1 and this was meant as a mobile first first chip punching above its weight. If things stay to plan and the chip shortage doesn't screw thing up, Apple should be releasing a more desktop focused chip designed to be more powerful, but still be more efficient that Intel I7 or I9 desktop processors.

Without a doubt, they put their money where their mouth was and did everything they claimed.
 
Posts: 4229 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’m a little late to the party but I have been using Apple laptops since 1998 and on average they last about 10 years before they are no longer viable as daily driver laptops for me. I would absolutely recommend one over a PC because even with the price difference you’ll be able to have a reliable computer rather than one that has constant conflicts between software and hardware. Because it is a closed system, Apple products tend to have less issues during updates. Since PCs must use parts from many suppliers, they often have things “break” between updates and patches. Keep in mind that you were buying an ecosystem rather than a computer by itself when you get an Apple product. It’s more money, but to me I find it is more like buying a weapon system with the optic already attached and ammunition developed for that particular rifle versus building an AR with off-the-shelf parts and putting things together by yourself and then getting ammunition from a couple different lots. The first will definitely work because all of the effort has been put on the front end and that’s where the money is, the second will work once you put some effort into it on the backend. Sounds like you’re interested in saving the effort over saving the money so go with Apple.


Please support the SF "Help Mike!" campaign to raise legal fees for a 72 year old Texas teacher and hobby rancher who had 6 forgotten 9mm rounds in his checked luggage leaving T&C and faced 12 years in prison and $50k legal fees at https://fundrazr.com/b2KZgc.
 
Posts: 2023 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Retired old fat motor cop
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I bought myself a MacBook Air M1 for a retirement gift, have been watching reviews on line etc. I doubt I don’t think I will be able to use this to it’s potential. I have always bought used or new at deal pc’s and handed off to family members who had a greater need. My last used was MacPro that was a local college turn in for 300.
I think I will hold on for a spare, has DVD drive
All that being said, I am using one finger crap typing on my iPad since it’s my easy chair do most things device


" Life is full of choices', Choices have consequences."
 
Posts: 698 | Location: New England | Registered: October 01, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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