Employers set the rules of employment. Whether you can work efficiently at home or in office is irrelevant. You are not boss. Don't like the rules? Go work elsewhere or start your own business.

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Originally posted by Loswsmith:
So my guess is that everyone who says stuff like "any idiot can do government jobs and better off without all those employees anyway" has never relied on a government employee to issue a permit, look up something important, file something, apporove a license or plan, or interact in some important, life critical way. Because I can tell you flat out that as someone who does, the fact that employees are leaving is a issue that is anywhere from annoying to flat out unliveable depending.

There have been shit workers ever since work was invented. Where they work matters not one wit, shit is shit, and for good/great workers, where they work doesn't matter unless it's important to the actual work. Making people work from the office just because there were economic systems built around that model results in choices like this: some leave and some stay. But for a lot that leave, there is no real replacement system for them and a super competitive market where competitors allow their employees to work from home some (or all of) the time.

And while I really don't like a lot about governement, I'm always reminded of THIS when I hear the "the government has never done anything that business can't do better argument". Show me the AT&T Interstate, the Facebbok Justice Center, the Walmart Emergency Response Systems. I mean, the USS Ford is an aircraft carrier named after the president and not the flagship for the company, and frankly there is no way that I would ever live in a country that allowed it otherwise.

Show me a government agency that actually works to a financial plan. Not enough money print some more. Raise taxes and decrease services.
Please tell me the last time you walked into your owners office and said "Times are for me, Give me more money, or I will put you in jail"

Working from an office/factory/shop has worked for hundreds of years. "Working from Home" has been failing for about a decade.

Certain jobs can be done from home but the vast majority are done from "the office" for a reason.

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You are not boss. Don't like the rules? Go work elsewhere or start your own business.

Exactly right, sir. And it sounds like that's exactly what those employees are doing.

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If it can be done remotely, it will eventually be done offshore

Many of these work from home types haven't thought this far ahead yet. But don't you worry, they'll be lamenting it when it happens.

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Originally posted by oldbill123:
If it can be done remotely, it will eventually be done offshore

DING DING DING.... I don't think it will take very long for this to start happening either.

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Originally posted by oldbill123:
If it can be done remotely, it will eventually be done offshore

For the win. I work on hardware and physical products so my job will always be onsite and local.

I think all the Cox cable phone taker people work from home. I had one damn woman snoring while I was on the phone. Had to wake her up 3 times

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Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
How much do you travel? If you do not how do you keep relationships going?? There are many things that I like to do in person.
REFERENCE TO LEFTY SIG POST

At my busiest I was out of the country half the year. 2011-2015 or so. Since then it's been more like 1/4 travel, mostly international. 2020 I did one week before the lockdowns, then nothing. 2021 I did about a a month and a half domestic. This year UK so far, maybe Japan and India later. China is still functionally impossible to visit due to quarantine requirements.

To some extent, I'm living off my past travel and relationship building, at least with respect to Asia. Brazil in early 2020 and UK this year made a huge difference for those locations, enough to last a while. But I'm also pretty well known with a big network and I'm into enough things that key people end up working with me on something or another, or asking me to connect them to other people/places. Sometimes there's a key person at a site that can vouch for you to others or newer people.

For someone that hasn't been around as much as I have, it would be a lot more difficult. Nothing beats putting eyes on things for real and understanding an operation directly. And nothing beats meeting people in person and sharing a meal or a drink after work. Now the big question of how much the company is willing to spend on travel after a couple years of minimal cost...

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Originally posted by sig2392:
I am a teleworker and run a team.

So far all of our projects are on time and on budget.

The only difference is I no longer waste two to three hours commuting every work day.

I am not spending $1375.00 in tolls.
$2450 for gas. $5700 for parking.

I save $9525 total and two to three hours out of my day.

I keep turning down offers to change to on-site or hybrid jobs.

Something tells me you're not a government employee. Look, I manage medium to large projects for a living and have for the past 15 years. Much of that time I've been truly remote (i.e. not just work from home, but work from anywhere I need to be). It's a skillset many people don't have and an environment many can't begin to handle. Add to that that some companies don't want to extend an opportunity to work from home for 'some' employees, knowing many others will want the same opportunity but don't possess the skills or ability to function in that environment.

I wouldn't want to be working in commercial real estate these days.

It's funny how government employees are all great and all their supervisors suck.

My position is as a remote employee. I travel throughout the territory and will fly back to corporate offices 2-4x/year, otherwise, my other bedroom doubles as my office. Skype was our main interface connection for a few years, Zoom and Teams became more used as the pandemic kicked-in.

Some positions can be done from home, such as sales, design, some accounting, analysis positions and the like; other positions such as customer service, credit, certain sourcing, trafficking, development, and marketing you need to be on-site. My customer service reps, credit reps and sales ops people who normally work in offices had a hell of a time for the first 6-months working from home, most really wanted to return back to the offices because they needed the separation of business/home life; they weren't used to it and their families were going nuts also. They adapted over the 18-months, some enjoyed it and learned how to use the new environment but, most longed for a return to 'normalcy'. Many of those positions are above entry-level but, not management, thus those employees are likely not going to have the home space to dedicate to their work; working from the end of the kitchen table wasn't an uncommon sight during a vid-call.

As others have pointed out, some individuals will not have temperament, organization or, discipline to work remotely; you've got to be a responsible and process driven to do remote work. I'm not going to nit-pick every position in government however I believe if the work is getting done, then that's the only answer needed. Not every position requires a daily on-site presence, this also puts more pressure on managers to gasp!....manage. Actually check on their employees, make sure they have what they need to get the job done, make sure they're open and they know where the resources are and of course the company (or, government) needs to have those resources available. If there's a shit IT department and a shit bunch of folks who don't maintain standards then working remotely is going to be a horrible performer.

Of the 183 VDOT workers thst resigned, 28 cited the new telework policy as a reason


28


Did the other 155 get better jobs? Maybe their significant others did? Maybe they’re moving out of state? Who knows.

This is just an atrempt by democrats to fuck with Youngkin by attributing every resignation, regardless of reason, to this policy

Good riddance

Last week, I was speaking with a parent of a VA gov employee who was being "forced" back to work under this order. She said her daughter didn't object at all to going back to the office, but the lease on her office had expired and she literally didn't have an office to go back to. I was told that's not an isolated sort of situation and that there has been a lack of common sense in the approach. I have no idea if any of that is true, but if it is, the order, as implemented, does seem kind of ham-fisted.

I haven't heard anything like that from any other source, but it could easily apply to only a handful of offices and not account for the general disdain being expressed for Youngkin.

-Rob

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Something tells me you're not a government employee. Look, I manage medium to large projects for a living and have for the past 15 years. Much of that time I've been truly remote (i.e. not just work from home, but work from anywhere I need to be). It's a skillset many people don't have and an environment many can't begin to handle. Add to that that some companies don't want to extend an opportunity to work from home for 'some' employees, knowing many others will want the same opportunity but don't possess the skills or ability to function in that environment.

Pre-pandemic, my work had me traveling 4-5 days a week plus 25% of my weekends. I had to work from anywhere in a high pressure results driven industry. My team of direct reports were mostly remote and needed to produce to stay employed. I would never force or expect my team to work the way I worked. The past ten years has been a sobering look at what happens in a society when everyone gets a trophy. Employees several layers down angry because they didn’t get a promotion and believed they deserved it. When you point out the person that received the promotion had better results and overall performance, they would say that wasn’t fair because they worked just as hard. They would stomp their feet off to HR to file a complaint, which would cause me to have to be involved and waste valuable time and resources. Inevitably this would seal their fate. You would think after watching the first few fling themselves off the cliff, the little lemmings would realize it was a losing proposition. That said, our goal was always to improve skill set, teach employees to be successful, and move people forward. I can’t teach someone to work hard and I can’t fix stupid.

I had dinner earlier this year with an employee and his wife. His wife was remote and said she would never go back to the office despite pressure from her company. When pressed as to why, she said she liked to work by the pool and took long walks with her “pandemic” puppy throughout the day which just couldn’t survive being home alone all day. Well, bless her heart! The economic conditions will eventually turn and the leverage will return to the employer. Let them quit!

I cant say that having a number of govt workers opt out is much of a loss, esp as these are likely not your "top performers" - sounds like culling of the herd.

Id like to see 25% of fed workers out of a job, esp DOJ, FBI, IRS...

Lefty Sig Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Had it good for two years. Shiny bauble taken away, babies cry about it. Boo fucking hoo. Show up for work or GTFO.

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Originally posted by SIGnified:
NEXT!

Anybody remember the 1970s when you were happy to have ANY job? Got to be some coffee smelling mofos real soon… Employers are going to have the powa back right soon.

Had this talk with a 20 something co-worker a couple weeks ago. Kids got his head screwed on straight, just wanted to reinforce and praise his work ethic.

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Originally posted by oldbill123:
If it can be done remotely, it will eventually be done offshore

Yep, or as my dad said, "Outta sight, Outta Mind"

This was discussed at my wife's employer, outsourcing all CS work, didn't get approved but, this signified that senior management was looking at empty offices, which started the discussion.

FYI, it was never been a discussion topic pre-Covid in the past 18 years that she's been there

During COVID, senior management was in the office and staff was working from home, what management saw wasn't the work still going on, they saw empty offices and cubes, it was the absence of staff, labor costs, insurance costs, reduced need for physical space that became a discussion point.


What wasn't on the radar, became a hot topic, senior management is looking at empty desks and wondering why they have employees on staff if it can be run remotely, outsource it....

For those that think they are not replaceable, think again, it's a big world.

Just saying, might want to pop in from time to time, let management know you're a real living human, that tends to get more compassion than a monthly bill for labor...