Needing to put the family property into a trust I have all the deeds dating back to 1917.
The last survey was done in 1990 and it appears that fella is not around anymore if he were I doubt he would be able to traverse the property any longer.
Of course most of it reads N 65* 30' W. 531.79 feet to corner 5 set a steel pipe in the old fence by the 20" Black Oak.

I have located a few of the pins on the property but nearly all that many.
This is some very rural area in southern KY. Is there a surveyor database of some sort or would the County Clerk have a decent lead or two.

How do you know if a Surveyor is even any good?

Go to the building dept. In your town, and ask what standard they expect from surveyors. Typically, you want one certified in your state, not just a credentialed surveyor.

If they can't wet stamp, don't bother.

Your survey in reality means little when you go to transfer the property.
My suggestion is to go to a title attorney, have them pull a title search to make sure that title is clean and properly vested in you.
Then once you have that give it to the surveyor for them to do the survey.
Attorney will also know a good surveyor.

You’re on the right track with finding a reputable surveyor as a starting point. An attorney can help with certain aspects but the actual boundary analysis and description is not a strong point of the vast majority of attorneys. Believe me, I’ve had to adjust and rebuild numerous deeds written by attorneys in the almost 30 years (27 of those in responsible charge). An attorney written Metes and Bounds description, which is the directional heading and distance described in the OP, almost never mathematically works. Usually by feet, several feet.

I’d recommend talking to some of the owners of neighboring properties to see if they know of a good company. You can also get on the governing Appraisal District’s website and see the last deed transfer for properties adjoining or close to the target tract, look for recent transfer dates and make contact with the current owners. They might be able to point you in the direction you’re looking for.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
Go to the building dept. In your town, and ask what standard they expect from surveyors. Typically, you want one certified in your state, not just a credentialed surveyor.

If they can't wet stamp, don't bother.

Arc,
What does wet stamp mean?

If it is near Louisville, shoot me an email. I am friends with one of the best appraisers in the country who lives there and he knows everyone who is anyone in real estate

Email in profile

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
Go to the building dept. In your town, and ask what standard they expect from surveyors. Typically, you want one certified in your state, not just a credentialed surveyor.

If they can't wet stamp, don't bother.

Arc,
What does wet stamp mean?

2nd that?

quote:

Originally posted by dlc444:
If it is near Louisville, shoot me an email. I am friends with one of the best appraisers in the country who lives there and he knows everyone who is anyone in real estate

Email in profile

About 175 miles southeast

Problem is this area is super rural. Finding anyone to do anything around there is near impossible.

Check the county records of the adjoining properties to see if any have more recent surveys. You'll still need your own but surveys should have the info from the surveyor in the plat.
Do you have any idea of the value of the property and approximate acreage? You don't want to sink a lot of time and money into cleaning up all the paperwork unless the value is high enough to justify the cost.

Your local building loan purveyors will know of good surveyors--every loan typically requires a survey.

flashguy

"wet stamp" is a term used by architects and PE (professional engineers) to designate authenticity of a document. it is a seal with name, date and signature of person producing the document. currently the seal can be digitized/printed onto the document, but is not considered legal without signature.

also for your consideration, Architects cannot digitize their stamp for submittal on permits, and must use a "wet stamp" on each page. PEs do not have this restriction and can sign and date their digitized stamp on the plans.

similar to a Notary Stamp for signatures on a legal document.

probably TMI

John

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Check the county records of the adjoining properties to see if any have more recent surveys. You'll still need your own but surveys should have the info from the surveyor in the plat.
Do you have any idea of the value of the property and approximate acreage? You don't want to sink a lot of time and money into cleaning up all the paperwork unless the value is high enough to justify the cost.

Monetary value is not much but familial value is very high.
I figure we get this set in a nice little estate and with today’s GPS technology no reason to ever have to do much in the future to make sure it is properly handed down for generations to come.
I enjoyed the weekend trips to the property growing up and still do. My boys love going down. You may have seen my rehab posts of the house on the property. Hopefully all the big stuff will be complete this spring and I can just go down and enjoy without any big projects.

eltonr thanks for the info in regard to wet stamping my survey from 1990 has that.

Land Surveyors are registered and licensed by the State. KY has a site to look up these licenses LINK. It is not a bad idea and shouldn't be too expensive to hire one just to locate and flag any existing pins from the plans you have and make sure there are no "neighbor transgressions". Setting a new pin however, is not cheap and may need to be officially recorded.

I have a similar problem. My family's property (Central Mass) is part of the towns original subdivision of the town dating back to 1685. Over the centuries, bits have been carved off for other lots for residences. My current issue is that in the last sell off in 1885, the surveyor used landmarks that are no longer present; example, big maple tree, the edge of the "new town road".

In keeping with no good deed goes unpunished, I helped my nephew buy this property, within a few years he passed away and his widow and her new boyfriend are blocking this now abandoned "road" which leads to our lower pasture. There was never an issue until about three years ago. The deed, town maps, and tax records all show this right of way through the town road but the issue persists. The entire property in question is surrounded by my property on three sides, the town road on the fourth. I spoke with a surveyor; after his helper looked they could not find any of the original stone boundaries or other markers mentioned.

How do I establish proper property lines? The size of the lot in question is clearly defined in the 1885 deed. I am willing to allow the widow to site her property anywhere within my property as long as the boundary for the town road (right of way) is respected.
I have communicated this to her but she is unwilling to cooperate even though I have offered to do a survey of her property (which will have the effect of noticeably diminishing her lot size as she now feels it is).

Given the unwillingness of the widow to cooperate and given that she has encroached both onto my property and the town road, are there any suggestions on how to proceed. I have considered a lawyer but wish to settle this without a court case if possible.

Suggestions on how to establish the boundary where the town road was. I clearly recall the location of the edge of the road (actually a dirt path) within three or four feet, however my recollection is clearly not a legal document

If your property surrounds hers on three sides and the town road is a common border for your property and hers on the fourth side, get a survey of your property. That would establish the boundaries of her property on three sides. It will also establish the road as the boundary of your property and make it quite obvious where the road is the boundary of the fourth side of her property.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
If your property surrounds hers on three sides and the town road is a common border for your property and hers on the fourth side, get a survey of your property. That would establish the boundaries of her property on three sides. It will also establish the road as the boundary of your property and make it quite obvious where the road is the boundary of the fourth side of her property.

This right here. You don't need her permission or cooperation.

A survey of your property will establish her lot lines. If she doesn't like it, she can commission her own survey. It will go to court, and is an issue between two licensed surveys. The town won't weigh in, but can provide old plans. Also, the registry of deeds will be a resource.

I have had to deal with similar issues here in Mass. I would not leave any sort of property issue alone. The more time that passes with an encroachment the harder it is to resolve in your favor. Definitely get advice from an attorney. A registered land surveyor will know how to pull plot plans for your property, "their" property, and all adjacent properties and be able to fill in the missing pieces to locate corners or set new pins. It is not cheap (I think I paid $800 to have one new pin set and recorded on a boundary). There is a legal process in MA to access your property even if landlocked (or blocked) and by law they cannot prevent a surveyor from doing their job by claiming trespass. It is always better to resolve these things amicably.

All of the Mass Registry of Deeds are online here:
Mass Land Records

Just an FYI, the cost for surveys, at least in Michigan has increased significantly.

No one seems to have a "good" reason for this at least in the research I've done. Surveyors told me this is the going rate, and the only explanation I found online was that it is to recoup the cost of the more expensive equipment used today.

We bought a square 40 in 2017 and to survey it they wanted just shy of $7000 for just corners!

Talking to others in the area they paid about $2000 in the late '90s for the same thing.

I got bids from 3 different surveyors and all were in the same ball park.

If you are merely moving ownership and there is no reason to have the boundaries "known" exactly I would question why you need it surveyed. If some third party like a bank or whatever is involved and you need the title issues researched then OK.
Or if there is some easement question. But just moving a lot from ownership a to ownership b I'd not waste the money.

Find a civil engineering firm in your area. Look for their employees that have PLS next to their name. They can create a survey/plot plan for you