California school shooter built guns to circumvent Cali gun laws. I assume these where 80% lowers. I'm sure the antis are going to make an issue of this.

http://www.redding.com/story/n...egal-guns/868737001/

Sheriff: Tehama shooter built his own illegal guns

Two of the guns used in the Tehama County mass shooting on Tuesday were homemade, while the other two were not registered to the shooter, officials said.

There also was a restraining order issued in February that prohibited the shooter from owning guns.

Those were some of the revelations made Wednesday about the mass shooting at Rancho Tehama on Tuesday that left six people dead, including the shooter, and 10 others injured.

The two homemade AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles were made from parts the shooter, Kevin Janson Neal, 44, purchased, said Phil Johnston, Tehama County’s assistant sheriff.

“These firearms were manufactured illegally, we believe, by him at his home,” Johnston said Wednesday. “So they (the guns) were obtained in an illegal manner, not through a legal process. They are not registered.”

<more at link>

Five minutes of research into actual home made guns would give the media the vapors.

They actually make for great paperweights especially when someone walks in and recognizes what they're looking at.

If we have a right to bear arms, why do we not have the right to manufacture any weapon of choice? Knife, sword, handgun, rifle, whatever?

There was no registration or FFL back when the 2A was drafted.

The government needs to stay out of any constraints to the 2A, including this kind of stuff.

Make the penalty / punishment heavier if weapons are used in the commission of a crime. But buying, having and making -- not a crime.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
If we have a right to bear arms, why do we not have the right to manufacture any weapon of choice? Knife, sword, handgun, rifle, whatever?

But we do have that right, don't we? It's perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own rifle, isn't it?

Or is that not so in California? Or is what he did only illegal because of the restraining order against him?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
If we have a right to bear arms, why do we not have the right to manufacture any weapon of choice? Knife, sword, handgun, rifle, whatever?

But we do have that right, don't we? It's perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own rifle, isn't it?

Or is that not so in California? Or is what he did only illegal because of the restraining order against him?

It is not illegal in California. I know several people who own them

It wasn't even illegal for him...but it was illegal for him to be in possession of a firearm

The feds allow 80% lowers. There's no reason the states have to.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

It wasn't even illegal for him...but it was illegal for him to be in possession of a firearm

That's what I thought.

Just another badly written, confusing article on firearms.

1. not currently illegal but there are a number of burdens like serial number registration, etc.

2. don't want any legislation to propose making it illegal for citizens to make their own lower.

Basically, if I want to make something, there should be no reason for the gov to be aware of its existence.

Another article. Some interesting information.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/...-guns-185746544.html

California rampage puts spotlight on homemade 'ghost guns'

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The gunman who killed his wife and four others in a rampage in Northern California this week found an easy way around a court order prohibiting him from having guns: He built his own at home.

Kevin Neal, 44, was armed with what authorities believe were two high-powered rifles that he made himself when he opened fire Tuesday on homes, cars and an elementary school around his tiny hometown of Rancho Tehama Reserve. A deputy finally shot and killed him.

It is the latest case of homemade semi-automatic weapons being used in a crime, and it comes as federal authorities try to draw attention to the dangers posed by these "ghost guns," which contain no registration numbers that can be used to trace them. In Baltimore, a man used a homemade AR-15-style rifle to shoot at four police officers in July 2016. They returned fire, killing him.

It's legal to build a gun in a home or a workshop, and advances in 3-D printing and milling have made it easier to do so. Kits can be purchased legally for $450 to $1,000 from hundreds of websites without the kind of background check required for traditional gun purchases.

"The more restrictive the laws become for people to purchase firearms, we're going to see those criminal elements build their own," Tehama County Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston said. "That's what they do."

In Neal's case, he had been ordered to give up all his guns earlier this year under a restraining order issued against him after he was charged with assaulting two women who lived nearby. He signed a document in February saying he surrendered a 9 mm handgun to a gun store, which also attested to that. When Neal was arrested, police seized an AR-15 Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle.

While making a ghost gun is legal, selling one is not. Federal officials are sounding the alarm about an increasing black market for homemade military-style semi-automatic rifles and handguns.

Mills where such weapons are built are popping up across the country and especially in California, which has strict gun laws. By 2019, people who own or create homemade firearms in California will have to apply for a serial number from the state and permanently affix it to the weapon.

The critical component in building an untraceable gun is what is known as the lower receiver, a part typically made of metal or polymer. An unfinished receiver — sometimes referred to as an "80-percent receiver" — can be legally bought online with no serial numbers or other markings on it, no license required.

Converting the piece of metal into a firearm is relatively simple and takes only a few hours. A drill press or a metal cutting machine known as a Computer Numeric Control, or CNC, is used to create a few holes in the receiver and well out a cavity. The receiver is then combined with a few other parts to create a fully functioning semi-automatic rifle or handgun.

Ghost guns are increasingly turning up at crime scenes and being purchased from gang members and other criminals by undercover federal Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents. It is hard to say how many are circulating on the streets. In many cases, police departments don't even contact the ATF about the guns because they can't be traced.

Cody Wilson, who runs a website and sells unfinished receivers and a CNC machine specifically marketed for making ghost guns, said although there is no legal requirement that he conduct background checks, he tries to take precautions to make sure the weapons aren't used nefariously. For example, he said, he won't sell to foreigners.

Wilson said he sells about 175 Ghost Gunner machines each month for about $1,700 each. Purchasers can use them over and over to mill out their guns. Wilson said most of his customers are gun enthusiasts and survivalists who simply enjoy building their own military-style weapons.

"There's a genuine excitement," he said.

Criminals, though, see the guns as a way to sidestep federal laws that prohibit them from owning guns, said Paul Ware, an attorney with the ATF in Los Angeles.

"The unfinished receiver is a total workaround because the prohibited person doesn't have to provide any identification," Ware said. "You just get it delivered to your home, and you build the exact same gun you could have bought at the store."

quote:

The gunman who killed his wife and four others in a rampage in Northern California this week found an easy way around a court order prohibiting him from having guns: He built his own at home.

Do any of these people read what they write? Once he completed the gun, he became illegally in possession of it!

you don't even need an 80% to do this. 3D printers are completely changing the game. You'll be able to print an upper, a butt stock, a rail, a magazine....all the evil black parts.

the barrel might be hardest, but given a few more years, 3D printers will take care of that too.

Essentially, 3D printing will make keeping guns out of the hands of criminals literally impossible. So now what? We need to focus on the underlying issues in these crimes and how we sensationalize them in media IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
you don't even need an 80% to do this. 3D printers are completely changing the game. You'll be able to print an upper, a butt stock, a rail, a magazine....all the evil black parts.

the barrel might be hardest, but given a few more years, 3D printers will take care of that too.

Essentially, 3D printing will make keeping guns out of the hands of criminals literally impossible. So now what? We need to focus on the underlying issues in these crimes and how we sensationalize them in media IMO.

Regulate 3D printers. Duh.

You ban the gun he'll use a knife. Ban the knife he'll use a car. Ban the car he'll use a bomb.

Know how to fix this whole problem? Make murder illegal. That way it won't matter what they use, they won't be able to do it because it's illegal.

Problem solved.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
you don't even need an 80% to do this. 3D printers are completely changing the game. You'll be able to print an upper, a butt stock, a rail, a magazine....all the evil black parts.

the barrel might be hardest, but given a few more years, 3D printers will take care of that too.

Essentially, 3D printing will make keeping guns out of the hands of criminals literally impossible. So now what? We need to focus on the underlying issues in these crimes and how we sensationalize them in media IMO.

One day, perhaps.

An affordable 3D printer big enough and capable enough to print a lower or upper is out of reach for most everyone at this juncture. I must know a dozen folks with various home sized / non commercial 3D printers and not a single one has such a capability.

Do you know anyone, or have you even seen in person, such a unit? I don't think such a beast even exists, again - in the home user / non commercial world, and I've not seen any indication that one is on the near horizon, either. Again, one day, sure, but no time soon.

Unfortunately.

And I'd love to be wrong about it.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
you don't even need an 80% to do this. 3D printers are completely changing the game. You'll be able to print an upper, a butt stock, a rail, a magazine....all the evil black parts.

the barrel might be hardest, but given a few more years, 3D printers will take care of that too.

Essentially, 3D printing will make keeping guns out of the hands of criminals literally impossible. So now what? We need to focus on the underlying issues in these crimes and how we sensationalize them in media IMO.

One day, perhaps.

An affordable 3D printer big enough and capable enough to print a lower or upper is out of reach for most everyone at this juncture. I must know a dozen folks with various home sized / non commercial 3D printers and not a single one has such a capability.

Do you know anyone, or have you even seen in person, such a unit? I don't think such a beast even exists, again - in the home user / non commercial world, and I've not seen any indication that one is on the near horizon, either. Again, one day, sure, but no time soon.

Unfortunately.

And I'd love to be wrong about it.

An AR-15 lower is under very little stress during firing. Virtually any 3D printer with a large enough print area could print an AR lower that would work for a while. At this point, that means a machine costing a few hundred dollars.

Uppers are a little different.

There are machines that print in metal that could make things like barrels, uppers, etc. Those are seriously high-dollar machines, though - six figures.

As far as I am aware, there isn't a machine made that can 3D print springs, but there are, of course, spring-bending machines.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
you don't even need an 80% to do this. 3D printers are completely changing the game. You'll be able to print an upper, a butt stock, a rail, a magazine....all the evil black parts.

the barrel might be hardest, but given a few more years, 3D printers will take care of that too.

Essentially, 3D printing will make keeping guns out of the hands of criminals literally impossible. So now what? We need to focus on the underlying issues in these crimes and how we sensationalize them in media IMO.

One day, perhaps.

An affordable 3D printer big enough and capable enough to print a lower or upper is out of reach for most everyone at this juncture. I must know a dozen folks with various home sized / non commercial 3D printers and not a single one has such a capability.

Do you know anyone, or have you even seen in person, such a unit? I don't think such a beast even exists, again - in the home user / non commercial world, and I've not seen any indication that one is on the near horizon, either. Again, one day, sure, but no time soon.

Unfortunately.

And I'd love to be wrong about it.

Such printers are readily available. our company is looking at buying a new 3D printer and they'd all be able to do this with ease.

The point is, it is now impossible to take away guns from criminals. The black market would flood with 3D printed guns if they tried. The investment into such printers would pay off in no time for the droves of gun bootleggers that would pop up.

My response would be to point to the "ghost shooter" in Texas. Domestic violence conviction, escaped from a mental institution, BCD based on violence, under investigation for sexual assualt-and NO ONE informed the FBI of any of this for NICS. One would think the Air Force was almost part of the US Government, and be required to input that data.

The point here is that there is a single key piece that is regulated. However it is not the most difficult piece to create. The rest of the necessary pieces, some of which are significantly harder to make, are unregulated individually, and easy to obtain. However, it's far from impossible to regulate them, and make them much more difficult to get as parts.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
you don't even need an 80% to do this. 3D printers are completely changing the game. You'll be able to print an upper, a butt stock, a rail, a magazine....all the evil black parts.

the barrel might be hardest, but given a few more years, 3D printers will take care of that too.

Essentially, 3D printing will make keeping guns out of the hands of criminals literally impossible. So now what? We need to focus on the underlying issues in these crimes and how we sensationalize them in media IMO.

One day, perhaps.

An affordable 3D printer big enough and capable enough to print a lower or upper is out of reach for most everyone at this juncture. I must know a dozen folks with various home sized / non commercial 3D printers and not a single one has such a capability.

Do you know anyone, or have you even seen in person, such a unit? I don't think such a beast even exists, again - in the home user / non commercial world, and I've not seen any indication that one is on the near horizon, either. Again, one day, sure, but no time soon.

Unfortunately.

And I'd love to be wrong about it.

An AR-15 lower is under very little stress during firing. Virtually any 3D printer with a large enough print area could print an AR lower that would work for a while. At this point, that means a machine costing a few hundred dollars.

Uppers are a little different.

There are machines that print in metal that could make things like barrels, uppers, etc. Those are seriously high-dollar machines, though - six figures.

As far as I am aware, there isn't a machine made that can 3D print springs, but there are, of course, spring-bending machines.

We are now in an era of the court of public opinion. It is possible that this is the new topic to exaggerate for purposes of advocating gun control. It has always been clear to us that the facts don't matter to the media, and they often use a lack of knowledge to purposely create confusion and distress the uninformed. Despite agreeing with you all, the nuances of this topic will clearly look like a loophole to the masses.

Here the local ABC station did this hit piece on Oct 30. ghost guns