quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

The downside is in order to be U.S. flagged, it has to be a U.S. built ship, and a U.S. build ship costs 3x (or more) what it costs to have a ship built in a foreign country.

Yeah, but U.S. built ships don't tip over as often.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

The downside is in order to be U.S. flagged, it has to be a U.S. built ship, and a U.S. build ship costs 3x (or more) what it costs to have a ship built in a foreign country.

Yeah, but U.S. built ships don't tip over as often.

The El Faro tipped over just as well, and it was U.S. Built. If you read the NTSB report, it had several age related issues that resulted in it's capsizing and sinking and all lives lost. Very very few RORO's are U.S. built/flagged compared to the rest of the world.

The real downside to the Jones Act, is the fleet of U.S. flagged ships are incredibly old, compared to the general age of the ships of other Flag States/Countries. Everyone else is using almost new ships...….generally year 2000 or newer. Meanwhile the U.S. flagged ships, a lot of them are from the 1960's +/- due to the cost. They're aged and have issues due to age and safety issues due to age.


For example, any company that specializes in shipping from Mainland U.S. to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, or Alaska, or one city in the U.S., back and forth, is using an old U.S. flagged ship (or a newer barge which isn't nearly as sea-worthy as a ship, but much cheaper) whereas the newer ones are a better, safer design, generally.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

The downside is in order to be U.S. flagged, it has to be a U.S. built ship, and a U.S. build ship costs 3x (or more) what it costs to have a ship built in a foreign country.

Yeah, but U.S. built ships don't tip over as often.

The El Faro tipped over just as well, and it was U.S. Built. If you read the NTSB report, it had several age related issues that resulted in it's capsizing and sinking and all lives lost.

The El Faro also sailed through the middle of a freakin' hurricane. But anyway, V-Tail was just making a joke.

quote:

The real downside to the Jones Act, is the fleet of U.S. flagged ships are incredibly old, compared to the general age of the ships of other Flag States/Countries. Everyone else is using almost new ships...….generally year 2000 or newer. Meanwhile the U.S. flagged ships, a lot of them are from the 1960's +/- due to the cost. They're aged and have issues due to age and safety issues due to age.

Let's not demonize the Jones Act. Blame the absurd union rules associated with US shipyards for the bloated price of US built ships.

How do they fix this mess?

If cargo is still on board, is it secured and not all jumbled up on the side?

If there was a load of automobiles on board, who is liable for the loss of the cargo?

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
How do they fix this mess?

If cargo is still on board, is it secured and not all jumbled up on the side?

If there was a load of automobiles on board, who is liable for the loss of the cargo?

They have to board the ship and asses the situation in order to fix it. Some ways would be to fill ballast tanks on the opposite side, use shore side cranes at the port to lift one side until they can shift ballast, etc.


It could be all jumbled up to one side, some of it could be, some of it could be secured. It is generally all lashed down, but the lashings might/probably not be enough to hold the cargo in place if the ship is on it's side.


They should be insured. Now, who's liable, depends on what caused it. If it's directly related to the ships crew not doing their job, then the liability would probably fall on the ship owner. If a malfunction on the ship, idk? That gets into lawyer territory.

The commercial shipping industry is extremely safe on average. Of all of the commercial ships plying the seas, there are only around 70 +/- major incidents, world wide

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

Let's not demonize the Jones Act. Blame the absurd union rules associated with US shipyards for the bloated price of US built ships.

Boom. Mic drop.


.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
Somewhere someone is wondering when he will get his car delivered

Custom built Ford GT

Lot of Porsches (maybe especially custom orders) are shipped to the NA HQ in Atlanta.

All missing crew members are still alive according to the Coast Guard.

Coast Guard makes contact with crew members in stricken cargo ship off Georgia, all confirmed alive

Rescuers made contact Monday with four crew members from inside a stricken cargo ship after the massive vessel overturned and caught fire near a major port in Georgia over the weekend as officials are now figuring out how to get them out of the massive vessel.

The Golden Ray, a 656-foot vehicle carrier, listed "heavily" and then rolled over on its side early Sunday in St. Simons Sound near Brunswick, Ga., according to the U.S. Coast Guard.

The Coast Guard said that rescuers drilled a hole overnight through the ship's hull, making contact with the four crew members.


"Extraction being planned," the Coast Guard said on Twitter.

You will probably be able to get a really good deal on an almost new car. Just slightly damp.

^^^^^^^
Good news indeed. I hope all of them are OK.

News is reporting 4200 cars on board. I had no idea they could hold that many. I was thinking max 600 or so. Seems like a difficult task for the pros recovering this ship.

quote:

Originally posted by creedbratton2:
News is reporting 4200 cars on board. I had no idea they could hold that many. I was thinking max 600 or so. Seems like a difficult task for the pros recovering this ship.

When these ship pull into the Port of San Diego (pier is in National City) it it very obvious when they are full vs empty when getting underway.

quote:

Originally posted by fvyellowbird:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
What catastrophic failure could cause a ship of that size to tip over like that?

It happened within the waterway of the Port of Brunswick on the way to Baltimore, easy assumption is either internal cargo shifted, which would be a lot to do that (platform collapse?) or, weight was gained on one side, like ballast tanks or, structural voids took on water unintentionally, either some kind of opening or, fighting fire and water used wasn't/couldn't be shifted.

FYI, this is nowhere near the Port of Baltimore, Brunswick is in Georgia. We watched the ship head in yesterday afternoon while at the beach on Saint Simons Island, woke to see that it had rolled over on its way back out of port in the early morning. Still 4 crewmen missing, supposedly trapped in the engine room.

Re-read my first sentence, the ship's destination was the Port of Baltimore, it didn't make it.

I had the pleasure of touring a cargo ship a number of years ago while working for APL. Two places I'd definitely wouldn't want to get trapped in were the tiny little ~15 story elevator or the four story engine room. That would suck. Hopefully they can get the remaining folks out safely asap.

Reports are that three have been freed and they are still working on getting the fourth out.

Any idea how deep the water is where the ship overturned?
Some photos make it appear pretty close to land.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Reports are that three have been freed and they are still working on getting the fourth out.

Good to hear, thanks for the update!

quote:

Originally posted by Patrick-SP2022:
Any idea how deep the water is where the ship overturned?
Some photos make it appear pretty close to land.

She capsized in St. Simon's Sound. Looking at www.marinetraffic.com and inferring the position of the capsized ship from the presence of the Moran tugboats on scene, and comparing that position to the NOAA chart of Brunswick Harbor and its approaches, the water varies in depth from 20' at mean low water off the south side of the channel to 59' off the north side of the channel, with most depths in the area being roughly 30'-45'. The channel in that area varies from 33' to 43'.

It looks from the information available that she rolled shortly after making the turn to starboard from the Jekyll Island Range to the Plantation Creek Range.

The area where she went over is just under (estimate) a mile across from the north point of Jekyll Island to the south, and the southern tip of St. Simon's Island to the north.

Looks like the last man is out.

Dumb question:
Is the ship actually floating on its side?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Looks like the last man is out.

Dumb question:
Is the ship actually floating on its side?

No, it’s on the bottom, otherwise it would have drifted....and would be anchored out...

The water there is 20-30 feet deep and shallower as you get away from the channel..