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The Navy has a problem with how it maintains its ships and how it treats its sailors Login/Join 
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Two issues that are tied together and rearing its ugly head. Navy leadership needs to change.
You join the Navy, get assigned to a ship that isn't going to sail for 4+ years, then get assigned work that you're not even trained for, great use of our volunteer citizens in the midst of a recruiting crises. Roll Eyes
Then there's the issues of not having your ships prepared and ready...those are violations; who's head is going to roll?

New Scandal Reveals Pattern Of U.S. Navy Disregard For Junior Sailors
quote:
In the space of three months, the U.S. Navy has been hit with two major scandals that have put a spotlight on its poor treatment of junior sailors. Compared with other recent Navy scandals like the long-simmering Red Hill Bulk Fuel Storage Facility water contamination crisis, the Navy has serious challenge in identifying and resolving “widely-known but unrecognzied challenges.” For junior sailors, naval leadership is far too often out of touch, either disinterested, unaware, or ineffective, only able to muster a viable response after sailors either die or go public with their frustrations.

A Navy that corrects chronic failures only when compelled by public notice is unacceptable.

The pattern is undeniable.

Earlier this year, after a fed-up sailor vented on the Reddit.com social media site, relating grim living conditions at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center barracks in Washington, D.C., both Congress and naval leadership were stunned. Junior sailors had gone “for years without hot water,” assigned rooms “without working fridges, thermostats or even locking doors,” and were “left to broil in barracks with broken air conditioning during humid Mid-Atlantic summers.” The Navy, stung by the public notice, lurched into action, fixing things.

But just as the Walter Reed scandal faded from the public eye, scrutiny turned to the USS George Washington, a super-carrier moored in Newport News, Virginia. The carrier is in the midst of a long refit—a refit that has run far longer than expected. After suffering a series of suicides, deaths accelerated, with three other USS George Washington sailors dying by suicide over the past month. In total, ten crew member deaths have been attributed—by one government entity or another—to suicide over the last two years of the carrier’s long refit.

As both the Navy and Congress rush in to assess conditions and the climate aboard the ship, it is clear the Navy, again, disregarded junior sailor welfare until the sailors themselves started to break down. In this case, the Navy’s response not only suggested that naval leadership is often totally unaware of basic sailor welfare, but that the Navy’s cultural challenges are so deeply embedded that junior sailors may be inured to mistreatment, struggling to articulate their challenges for an unaware or unmoved command chain.
....



‘We Should Have Been There’: Marine General Laments the State of the Amphib Navy A failure to deploy in February illustrates the low readiness of the nation’s amphibious warships, a Marine three-star tells Defense One.
quote:
Maintenance problems with three amphibious warships kept a Marine Expeditionary Unit from answering urgent orders to Europe earlier this year, and a deputy commandant fears it could happen again.

On Feb. 15, the Joint Staff sent prepare-to-deploy orders to the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, and to its associated Naval amphibious ready group. Their purpose: “provide bridging solutions” to Gen. Tod Wolters, the commander of U.S. European Command and NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Europe, according to Lt. Gen. Karsten Heckl, the commanding general of Marine Corps Combat Development Command and deputy commandant for Combat Development and Integration.

The 22nd MEU was already prepared to go. However, the maintenance status of the three warships of the Kearsarge Amphibious Ready Group was “so bad” they were not prepared to leave then or after the invasion, Heckl told Defense One on Thursday. They were even late to meet their original deployment date.

“When you get within X number of days of your deployment date, you’re placed basically on a [prepare-to-deploy order] and the Kearsarge ARG failed that as well. Which is basically a violation of orders from my perspective as a Marine, right? If the joint order tells you to be ready on X day, then you’re to be ready on X day, and they were not.”

Marine Corps officials did offer to deploy the MEU by other means, Heckl said, something that should not have to happen to a naval expeditionary force.

....
 
Posts: 15137 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You can't blame them. Karen commandos gotta be trained on sensitivity, transgender surgery gotta be healed, and those ships are not environmental friendly.

Sheeeshh , people just don't understand the emotional impact of that.
 
Posts: 656 | Registered: February 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official Space Nerd
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The senior Navy enlisted guy (Chief Petty Officer of the Navy?) visited the carrier that had the suicides. His response? 'It could always be worse.'

Way to be tone deaf and ignore the plight of your enlisted force. That, by the way, is his JOB: to take care of the enlisted by advocating for them in the upper Navy echelons.



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Posts: 21953 | Location: Hobbiton, The Shire, Middle Earth | Registered: September 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Too many Admirals & Senior officers are far too concerned & focused upon their post careers, going to work for defense contractors. I present the Littoral Combat Ships, plagued with design issues leading to major engineering failures. Many are being considered for retirement with less than 10 years service. The Navy is still procuring them? Why? Now there’s a congressional committee that needs to be formed.

Let’s not forget the CG or Cruiser replacement program. What program you may ask? Well, Naval leadership has had years to come up with one to provide adequate Anti-Air defense & coordination for Carrier battle groups. Instead, they’re pumping hundreds of millions into Ticonderoga class ships that really should be retired as the refit costs per hull come halfway to buying a new one. Naval leadership only recently decided to replace them with modified Arleigh Burke Flight III’s equipped with a similar Command & control and upgraded Radar suite. Problem is they offer a few dozen less VLS missile cells.

Congress can fix this. Require Admirals & Command level officers to have to wait 24-48 months before being able to work for a defense contractor after they retire. While they’re at it, replace the woke diversity training officers with Quality of life officers focused on both living and advancement conditions.


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My best friend's grandson separated from the Marine Corps on Monday. He was stationed at Lejeune.

And there was great rejoicing.

Let's Go Brandon.


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Posts: 2183 | Location: East Virginia | Registered: October 12, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
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There’s a big thing about suicides going on in that carrier that they started moving people off.

I feel for anyone who find themselves in a deep black well where they see suicide as the only exit. But on the other hand, I seriously wonder what could cause this - is it the spotty slow Internet???

And, yes, I’ve lived on a carrier while in the shipyard and across the pier on a berthing ship. It’s no Ritz Carlton but, dang, you get to go to town every night, have weekends off, and hours were 7 am to 3 pm. It beats 6 on, 6 off steaming in circles out in the Indian Ocean drinking lukewarm soda and powdered milk.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 20180 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
outta the oven!

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Why does it seem like the Navy has all these problems and scandals but we aren’t hearing this out of the Army or Air Force?

Better leadership there?

The whole “broiling in Barracks in humid summer weather” made me think of the poor Army guys we had interaction with as Air National Guard at Al Jaber Air Base, Kuwait in 2003. These guys were forced to sleep in basically empty warehouses with not even fans while we Air Force/Air Guard lived in “dorms” (AF speak for barracks) with AC and TV’s in each 4 man room. The Army guys were shocked when they found this out too.


 
Posts: 34971 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I feel for anyone who find themselves in a deep black well where they see suicide as the only exit. But on the other hand, I seriously wonder what could cause this - is it the spotty slow Internet???

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe the sailor on camera said there was a six month wait to see the ship's psychologist. Perhaps that was a factor as the Navy then ramped up mental health services.
 
Posts: 17616 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SIP2000GLO:
You can't blame them. Karen commandos gotta be trained on sensitivity, transgender surgery gotta be healed, and those ships are not environmental friendly.

Sheeeshh , people just don't understand the emotional impact of that.

Imagine joining the Navy, getting some unique training and your entire first enlistment (4 years) is to be a 'helper' to a welder by holding a fire extinguisher, on a ship that won't sail for years, while sleeping in steel box at an industrial site. The Navy is promising to fix, intermittent water/heads/showers, no internet/phone service, lousy food, incessant noise. This isn't a transient issue, it's effectively permanent, unending, for years. Prisoners are housed in better conditions. The Navy has had decades to budget the money and build the infrastructure to support crews on these ships in extended yard time, these aren't new issues.

This is just another example of incompetence, neglect, and bad judgement displayed by naval leadership. Get rid of some of these Admirals, each one has a salary, perks, housing, staff costs that's close to $1M per year. There's plenty of money to take care of the junior enlisted that they're crapping on, its up to the Navy and Congress. The remarks by the MCPON is a disgrace, and perfect example of the distain senior members have for those that work for them. The guy has a misconduct investigation hanging over him and he replaced a guy who was dismissed early for being a raging a-hole to his own staff.
 
Posts: 15137 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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quote:
This is just another example of incompetence, neglect, and bad judgement displayed by naval leadership. Get rid of some of these Admirals, each one has a salary, perks, housing, staff costs that's close to $1M per year. There's plenty of money to take care of the junior enlisted that they're crapping on, its up to the Navy and Congress.

Yessir. You are correct.
But since Obama they have weeded out those who really care for the troops. Now, the upper echelons are just woke political hacks.



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Posts: 24748 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Unfortunately the Navy has always been Hurry it up and wait. The poor sailors have NO support, not from the CMC, O’s or the MCON! Good bless our serving men and women.
 
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A Grateful American
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Thank you, chellim.

Some folks gave a little flack to those that states as much, attributing the "cuts" to "normal attrition" of top ranks either through performance reviews and/or less than staller performance.

I used to tell people that "could not see the secret world of the inside military" that it could be gauged by looking at the state of the union, the crap in the news, infrastructure, everything, was an indicator of the military machine.

If you can "Fly by instruments" you could tell when there were problems in the military.

It's people doing people things, and as a country, we are all going down the same road the same way.

So, while we always have a good number of people (in both places), it does not mean all is well.

I do not know what the next real existential crises will manifest, but there is one coming.

Hope the last several years have motivated people to have prepared themselves.

(The brain is the weapon, everything else is a tool)




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quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
Why does it seem like the Navy has all these problems and scandals but we aren’t hearing this out of the Army or Air Force?

Better leadership there?

The whole “broiling in Barracks in humid summer weather” made me think of the poor Army guys we had interaction with as Air National Guard at Al Jaber Air Base, Kuwait in 2003. These guys were forced to sleep in basically empty warehouses with not even fans while we Air Force/Air Guard lived in “dorms” (AF speak for barracks) with AC and TV’s in each 4 man room. The Army guys were shocked when they found this out too.


You forgot the Marines and Coast Guard, like the Army and Air Force, they probably have better leadership.

And I never lived in a barracks that had air conditioning in the Army, and in Basic training in Ft. Lewis Washington November to February, when we got up each morning, the 3 or 4 inches of water in the butt cans was frozen solid, so we didn't have heat in the winter either.

Sounds like some snowflakes in the Navy these days.
 
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Age Quod Agis
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Our Navy is well and truly fucked up. And this coming from a guy who saw how fucked up the Army was. Got to say, the Navy makes the Army look like amateurs when it comes to FUBAR.

Maybe we need a hard charging Secretary of the Navy who was a competent commander during the Iraq war to turn this mess around. It doesn't seem like the current cadre 0-6 and above has what it takes to get things right.

As we write this, the Navy is screwing a E-7 SEAL of my acquaintance who has 100% disability. The Navy admits this, but won't pay him. They are trying to pass the responsibility off to the Naval Reserve, even though his injuries are Active Duty.

He went before a hearing panel of three O-6s; two Army guys and one Marine. Not only did this board find in his favor, the Marine commented that his command had really screwed him. Unfortunately, the board's recommendation is not binding on the Navy, and although he has so far been successful, he still doesn't have benefits.

The Navy needs a command structure ass whipping of the first order to get off its 4th point of contact and get men and mission right.



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Better Than I Deserve!
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I spent 26 years on active duty in the Navy and retired a decade ago. It wasn't always like this. I never had to live in conditions like this and never felt I wasn't supported.

It's a shame it has come to this.

I will say, towards the end of my career the Navy had quit investing in its Sailors like it did when I joined in the 80's. When I joined, as an Aviation Electronics Technician, I was in school for a year learning electronics. When I retired, the same Sailors were only getting 8 weeks of electronics training when they joined.

I think this trend has compounded into what we're seeing today. Sailors are not as important as machines and the perks for those at the top. Combine that with a shift away from warfighting and towards social justice and its lead to the decay of the service we're seeing today.


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Posts: 4990 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: September 23, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
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Crazy.
Even in the CG, if your ship is in dry dock or even alongside repair, no one was forced to sleep on the ship. They rented a block of rooms at a hotel, we manned a liberty van taking shipmates to and from work and groceries etc.

You cant sleep anywhere on a ship, with someone running a needle gun. Plus welding and fire watches constantly setting off fire alarms.

I lived thru three dry dock work periods on two separate ships, and there was no way they would have even thought of us living aboard.



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Posts: 11516 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Don't fool yourselves. There is a reason that 22 veterans a day commit suicide. The military doesn't care about its junior personnel. They want 18 year olds straight out of high school because they are easily exploitable. They chew them up and spit them out. Our children are nameless nobodies to our political elites.

Did you notice that the Afghan Army that was trained and equipped by the our military for twenty years melted away over night and no one in Washington evened pretended to care.
 
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Instead of learning from the Bon Homme Richard fiasco, head shed at big Navy, doubles down on stupid.
 
Posts: 2857 | Location: Boston, Mass | Registered: December 02, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Son of a son
of a Sailor
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This thread hits home with me. Like LBTRS, I entered active duty in the 80's and retired a decade ago but it seems like yesterday. I went through 2 extensive ship overhauls, and the conditions were absolutely horrible. One we had a berthing barge, and the other we did not. Sailors were taking their mattresses out on the flight deck because it was so hot and humid inside the ship. Needle gun and deck grinder (removes nonskid from flight deck) noise were unbearable.
I'm glad to be retired and don't envy the good folks that are trying to keep our Navy in fighting shape.


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Posts: 999 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: May 20, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh its in the Army and the Marines as well

It doesn't matter what branch it is:
The lower the rung, the crappier the treatment.

The Army is too worried about PT Tests, Emma, Tranny training, and whatever special month it is.

Oh, and to make sure that every MOS is tailored for a female to pass all the "required" test/standards.

I will admit that the Army has gotten soft on many things.
The problem is that the whole system is broken, and they are focused on misaligned and misguided ideals.
I tell everyone to join the Peace Corp or a humanitarian group.
 
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