I know several couples where either one or both of them are not financially responsible. I’m in my 50’s now and it’s really gonna suck if any of them come to me near retirement age and ask for help. Unfortunately I know more couples in that situation than I care to admit. I learned early in life you can’t throw good money after bad. A roof over family’s head is one thing, money, no chance. Do you know quite a few people/couples in the same situation?

I’m in a major metro area and it’s most people here. Marketing and the lexicon (fake reality they create and many adhere to) has them by the balls. All of them in a fake race versus each other with the vehicles, expensive vacations, buying trinkets, the house, etc. They are in debt up to their asses, charging up their credit cards and nothing you can say to them will change their ways. Most of them put all their private/personal business on the internet too on one or many of the social media apps. Best to just distance yourself from them. That’s what I did years ago. Sooner or later their poor habits push them to start borrowing money, tools, needing favors etc and my answer was always no. They had every opportunity to put money away for retirement, emergencies, etc, and they mucked it every time. It’s on them.

I would estimate that a majority of Americans are like that. My wife and I have scrimped and saved so we can retire comfortably. I know too many people that have not saved and live beyond their meands.

I also know people in their late 60’s with both spouses who are in professional vocations, yet they cannot afford to retire. I have no degree and my wife has not worked (other than one Christmas season in the 90’s) yet we were able to save enough to hopefully retire at 60.

Most Americans depend on the government to save them. I saw that in one of our major hurricanes that hit the Houston area years ago. I have flood, wind and regular homeowners insurance. I work with a guy that chose not to buy flood insurance and he flooded. No problem, FEMA gave him 30k and I got zero from them. The govt wants that so they can get votes and it conditions people to depend on the govt for everything so they do not save.

Also had a friend who retired at 55, yet had two vehicles with well cover 200k miles on them and a house that needed a full remodel. He did not have a big nest egg either since he spent most of what he made. I still cannot understand why he thought he could retire, he ended up going back to work.

On top of that, his daughter, who was in her 30’s, decided she wanted to finish up college (after screwing around and living it up in her 20’s when she should have been in school). Well, he had told her years ago he would pay for it and he did. There is no way I would support my daughter in her 30’s. My wife and I taught her financial responsibility and once she was on her own there was no coming back. She is doing just fine.

Coddle your kids and they will depend on you as much as they do the govt.

You are going about it all wrong on the worrying side.

Get on the receiving end of that equation!

Yep. I know a young couple (mid 30s) who are so far in debt with cars, student loans, a $100,000 camper (that's now worth about 40% of that), and a piece of land, that I could give them $30,000 cash and it wouldn't do them any good. Between them, they bring in $200+, but frankly, that's not a whole lot of money...especially when you're over a million in debt and don't even have a house (they're renting and hoping to build...tack on another $500K).

Several folks, including myself, have tried to counsel them, to no avail. Just keep digging that hole deeper.

One of my favorite quotes is, "Good judgement comes from experience...Experience comes from bad judgement". I've got a lot of "experience". One of the things that frustrates the hell out of me is that as you get older, you gain a certain degree of wisdom...whether you want to or not. Then, when you try to impart that wisdom on younger folks they do the exact opposite of the advice that you give them. I feel bad for this couple, as they're going to be in debt for the rest of their lives, but they made their own bed.

400m, have any of these people indicated they would come to you for long term help?

I think part of the problem today is that many people in financial trouble aren’t willing to make the lifestyle changes necessary to turn things around (downsize, get a second job, move to a more affordable place, own economical cars). They believe they are owed the same level of comfort they enjoyed while working.

There's a massive retirement savings crisis on the horizon.

The Baby Boomers that are retired/retiring now were the last generation where a good number of them not only had pension plans from their jobs, but also will have their full Social Security benefits, in addition to whatever personal savings they managed to accumulate.

Every subsequent generation, starting with those Gen Xers in their 50s that are nearing just ~10 years from retirement, are going to be mostly on their own with just their personal retirement savings to rely upon (401k/IRA/real estate/etc.) Pension plans mostly went the way of the dodo, and Social Security will start being insolvent and have to start cutting benefits in 2030.

Yet study after study after study for the past many years has shown that many of these folks in their 50s - and especially those in younger demographics - are far behind the retirement savings curve. Because most people these days, regardless of how much they make, are living paycheck to paycheck plus going into debt by trying to keep up with the Jones' new car, new phone, designer purse, swanky vacation, etc.

This means that in the coming decades, they're facing having to work until they drop dead and/or rely on family/friends/government/charities in order to make ends meet in their "golden years", once they're physically unable to work or at least unable to find a job that will hire them.

We're surrounded by a sea of people - even those who appear "rich" - living hand to mouth with no appreciable savings but crushing debt. Meanwhile, a tidal wave of broke senior citizens is brewing. And it's going to hit hard.

I'm just about finished digging out of a hole made from bad judgement earlier in life. It's going to be a beautiful day when that's finished.

And with that in mind, I keep after "my" 24-year old at work, pestering her frequently to increase her 401(k) contribution rate. I keep telling her, "don't be like me when you're my age. Be ready to retire at my age!"

So far, she's going along with it. I tried to put on the sad SPCA "begging ad" voice with her last week -- "for just a dollar a day, YOU can be prepared to retire early." She's just 24, and got two kids, so it's hard to hammer that point home... until I poke at her about her $8 coffee drinks.
"Just give up one of those each week, kid, and put that money into your retirement savings instead." She knows, of course, that in six months I'll be after her to increase her contribution rate by another percent. I've got her rounding up her car payment to the next $25, to get it paid off early -- I have to give her full credit for that.

It's not entirely their fault, since the private sector discontinued traditional retirement plans a very long time ago. There isn't any amount of 401k or anything else like that which comes close to a traditional full-benefit 30 year retirement payout of yesteryear. None, nada. I'm speaking of course for regular working stiffs, not those in the professions who are smarter at planning and have set up that stuff up during their peak earning years, or with equity positions in their practices etc they can sell.

I'm not an expert, but that's my evaluation comparing the current generation of working stiffs with those who worked as hard (or less so) who are older.

I have some family like that. As much as we try it's hard to offer help to people that think everything is just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
It's not entirely their fault, since the private sector discontinued traditional retirement plans a very long time ago...

That's a good observation. Basically, pension funds were taken without a choice of the employee, a forced retirement savings plan (to oversimplify). Now, responsibility is with the individual, and the individual, in general, is not good with deferred gratification. Imagine what would happen if taxes weren't withheld from paychecks.

Russ59 to answer your question no, nobody has asked. Most people who know me well know what my answer would be. They know that I did it without keeping up with the Jonses and toys and cars. I live within my means. The house is nothing fancy but it’s kept up. Outside at least, it’s dated inside. But it’s mine and I should be done with the mortgage in 4-6 years. Kids are taken care of and 529’s have existed since each was born. It won’t pay for Columbia, heck it won’t pay for 4 years at an in state university but it will pay for quite a bit.
Maybe it’s heartless of me but I’ve watched too many play with boats, wave runners, vacations, and cars. One neighbor is retired, cancer comes and goes, and I know he was upside down on his home 3-4 years ago. But his house and yard are immaculate as are the brand new Harley, 2 Corvette’s and probably 10-12 new trucks he’s had in the last 25 years.
It’s not my position to tell anyone how to live. But I don’t plan on asking for handouts.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
It's not entirely their fault, since the private sector discontinued traditional retirement plans a very long time ago. There isn't any amount of 401k or anything else like that which comes close to a traditional full-benefit 30 year retirement payout of yesteryear. None, nada. I'm speaking of course for regular working stiffs, not those in the professions who are smarter at planning and have set up that stuff up during their peak earning years, or with equity positions in their practices etc they can sell.

I'm not an expert, but that's my evaluation comparing the current generation of working stiffs with those who worked as hard (or less so) who are older.

I do not buy this premise.

Sure private pensions have been out of the equation for a few decades.

If those that you say is not their fault failed to adapt when there were and are options that is in fact on them.

And a lot of the people that are being discussed her are doing themselves damage while not doing what they should is their fault and no one else's

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
It's not entirely their fault, since the private sector discontinued traditional retirement plans a very long time ago. There isn't any amount of 401k or anything else like that which comes close to a traditional full-benefit 30 year retirement payout of yesteryear. None, nada. I'm speaking of course for regular working stiffs, not those in the professions who are smarter at planning and have set up that stuff up during their peak earning years, or with equity positions in their practices etc they can sell.

I'm not an expert, but that's my evaluation comparing the current generation of working stiffs with those who worked as hard (or less so) who are older.

I was a Teamster for 35 years. I was so pissed when my company got us out of Teamsters Central States pension
and into 401k. Now I am so so glad that happened. Retired Teamsters have had their pay cut by a third or half.
Corrupt union. I paid my house off at 50 years old, and was dumping about 35 percent of my pay into retirement.
It kind of sucked being frugal most of my life, but at 61 I told my employer to fuck off and retired. Zero debt
and I can live off less than I get in SS, haven't touched my retirement. If I can do that on a blue collar truck drivers wages,
I have no pity for people that make twice as much as me and can't get out of debt. Piss on em, I wouldn't give them a dime.

Pension plans have been gone for all of my lifetime (46yo) as far as I could tell. My first job had a pension plan, but required too many years of service to make me consider it even remotely viable in my chosen profession (yes, physician). Not surprising as a young physician, I did leave that first job in a couple years (most in my specialty last about 18moths in their first job) for one better (still there) and did manage to save on my own. I, thankfully, had a father who was financially savvy and taught me well. I have been able to maximize my retirement savings, and was wisely advised by another to keep “ONE HOUSE, ONE CHILD, ONE WIFE!” I plan on retiring about 60yo without any dependence on social security, b/c like most awake Gen Xers, I have never believed that Ponzi scheme will be there for me. I had a lot of good role models in my life as I matured, and I am very thankful for them. Depending on the government to provide for me was never mentioned, and is not expected. I believe at some point, Social Security will be withheld from those who have other source of retirement funds, starting with “means testing” or some other socialist wealth redistribution trope, moving to a push for equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity, as we see in communist Cuba today, where a physician such as myself can’t feed their family without government assistance.

quote:

Originally posted by Schmelby:
If I can do that on a blue collar truck drivers wages,
I have no pity for people that make twice as much as me and can't get out of debt.

This.

I’m 65 now and retired at 58. Since then, only two couples I know have asked me “How did you do it?” I told them that they need to focus on what you spend even more than what you save.

I asked: One guy makes $100,000 a year, spends $75,000 and saves $25,000. Another guy makes $1,000,000 per year, but spends $1,100,000 and goes deeper in debt every year. Which one is is on the way to comfortable retirement?

I don’t know what one of the couples did, but the other one has been through a bankruptcy where they lost their business, their home, and their cars. The husband is 67 or 68, and the wife is 65. Now, they’re both working 2 jobs. I don’t know how much they’re saving now, but the last time I saw them they were driving a brand new SUV.

quote:

Originally posted by IntrepidTraveler:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
It's not entirely their fault, since the private sector discontinued traditional retirement plans a very long time ago...

That's a good observation. Basically, pension funds were taken without a choice of the employee, a forced retirement savings plan (to oversimplify). Now, responsibility is with the individual, and the individual, in general, is not good with deferred gratification. Imagine what would happen if taxes weren't withheld from paychecks.

I've come to the conclusion that not witholding taxes from paychecks is EXACTLY what needs to happen. I've done some consulting (1099 type work) the last few years. Every quarter I paid my estimates it reminded me just how screwed up DC is with their spending and the need to regain some control there.

In my country we go broke every 15-20 years. Before that and between collapses, the powers make sure attrition takes care of any savings you manage to squirrel away.
My financial back was broken back in 2001 and i never recovered the clients and regular customers i had. Mother of my kids made sure i stayed broke and down (her own words).
More recently our previous administration did an excellent job running the economy to the ground and then came Lockdown. It was enforced and extended long enough to leave the country devastated.
They took 20+ years to create three ir more generations of people that have never worked a day in their lives, live on Government subsidies and are well aware that the legal system should not worry them. Complete impunity almost assured.

God will provide.

There’s never enough money or certainty that you can manage to stay afloat.

0-0

quote:

Originally posted by Powers77:
I've come to the conclusion that not witholding taxes from paychecks is EXACTLY what needs to happen...

You want to see a bloated IRS? Have that happen. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why you'd like that, and in principle, I don't disagree. It would make it that much more "in your face" every paycheck/quarter when you had to write those checks. But there would be a lot of people who would not, they would spend then come up short at tax time. (And that wouldn't address the issue of those that pay no taxes at all, or get back more than they pay.)