quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
how big would the drones have to be if they were maneuvered into commercial airliner engines on takeoff to bring the aircraft down?

Pretty big, and you'd have to take out multiple engines to bring it down. The engines can ingest a sizable bird before being damaged to the point of shutdown. The typical drone has very little metal in it so as to keep the weight down. A fan blade might get chipped, but that won't do much more than cause a little vibration. Fan blades get nicked by stones or birds and run just fine.

I also think a helicopter would survive a typical commercially available drone without much damage. The scene in the tv show linked by somebody seems overly dramatic.

I would be far more worried about the organized terrorist types who would purpose build a radio controlled device to bring down an aircraft. Something with a good chunk of hardened metal in it to either take out an engine or penetrate the windshield. Still, it would be very difficult to bring down the aircraft. We fly just fine on one engine or one pilot (though prefer to not have to do so!).

Taking out both engines would take extreme luck. No two airplanes fly the exact same climb profile because of many factors. The weaponized drones would have to have a lot of vertical speed capability as well as maneuverability. I don't see such an attack having much or any chance of success without true missile technology.

A lone douchebag on the other hand might manage with a commercial drone to strike an aircraft during takeoff or landing. Some minor damage might result but I would not expect it to bring the aircraft down.

quote:

...there are THOUSANDS of {insert your favorite annoyance here}, many which are controlled by idiots.

Cars, motorcycles, ATVs, golf carts, boats, airplanes, remote controlled airplanes, firearms, kites, model rockets, etc. Other than being new, I'm not sure what it is about drones that causes so much angst. I don't own one, never flown one, but they annoy me. Go figure.

A) Mostly seemed to be owned by perverts - not really. Lots of uses for them, but perverts do like them.

B) Radio controlled planes were hard to fly, and expensive. Drones seem to be rather simple to operate, so morons keep wanting to fly them places they shouldn't go.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

quote:

Hanlon's Razor /prov./ A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, that reads "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately

OP's close call has nothing to do with "malice." It is more serious than that. Instead of one or two maliscious people across the world, there are THOUSANDS of drones, many which are controlled by idiots. And these idiots are the reason govts are tightening the restrictions on drone use.

Yup, that's just my normal signature line

Bruce

Oh.

Phone screen limits my ability to see avatars. . .

Thank you, Fly-Sig, for that discussion.

Here's what one expat who lives in china does with his.

Assign a narrow band RF for the drones, and provide a "remote shutdown" command in the BIOS of the drone, and then add a transponder to aircraft that broadcasts on that frequency out to a mile or two.

Anything in the aircraft's "bubble" will shut down and go full Newton.

Anyone caught modifying to work around the intended operation of such solution, would incur stiff fines and or jail time and be prohibited for operating again.

Sure, more laws, but no one has a "right" to keep and bear drones.

So, it's a relatively new thing (beyond RC aircraft) but then, people involved in such things used to be "professional", self disciplined and the RC crowd self policed and shunned idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by walkinghorse:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/...ayer_rules_in_court/

So far one guy who shot down a drone has been winning in court, through an appeals court win. I
interesting reading about a 1936 decision involving property and a 83' ceiling.

Recall the discussion here. At issue was the range of the birdshot vs. the drone owner's claim of altitude. Then there was the fact the drone repeatedly hovered over his daughter.

There's another case where the drone was hassling a homeowner. She first threw rocks, then brought out the shotgun. That drove the drone off.

While development of tools that disrupt the drones, range and cost won't make it practical for the homeowner.

Last, a top of the line drone ran into the Space Needle. Nobody has claimed it.

http://www.travelpulse.com/new...care-away-drone.html

When we have things that can be used anonymously to cause harm, or otherwise infringe upon a person's right to live peaceably and enjoy his/her own property, then we have to consider the impact of doing nothing for fear of offense to the first person's right to do as he will.

We do not tolerate anyone laying trap or snare that a person or his beast may encounter. Such has been for as far as man has lived together.

The drone, with it's ability to be intrusive to another's privacy, or to bring or cause harm to another or his property, then the one who has the drone is the "second class" as it were.

While I loath more law, we should first consider of existing proper law exists and enforce them.

Better we govern ourselves rather than wait until another govern's us.
Never does another do so with anything but the velvet glove.

If that operator were to be caught flying 700' AGL without a waiver from the FAA the new penalties under part 107 are stiff. A few high profile example cases will eventually make most people reconsider their drone flying habits.

Part 107 has made me reconsider future builds and even consider not flying a 4" I already have built. I am currently working on a sub 250 gram model for safety and legal reasons. Beyond that I would never consider intentionally cross the FAA as it could cost me my pilot's license.

Like any other activity, there will always be some ignorant mother heifers who choose not to follow the rules.

quote:

Originally posted by tigereye313:
If that operator were to be caught flying 700' AGL without a waiver from the FAA the new penalties under part 107 are stiff. A few high profile example cases will eventually make most people reconsider their drone flying habits.

Part 107 has made me reconsider future builds and even consider not flying a 4" I already have built. I am currently working on a sub 250 gram model for safety and legal reasons. Beyond that I would never consider intentionally cross the FAA as it could cost me my pilot's license.

Like any other activity, there will always be some ignorant mother heifers who choose not to follow the rules.

I know with the Phantoms and many others it restricts them from flying above 400' in the software. It's really amazing how advanced technologically some of these drones are.

They've replaced helicopters and professional photographers in them completely when making sales videos in the yachting industry. Most of the professional photographers use a combination of drones and still shots. Here's a video that was made with a combination of drone footage and still shots from another boat that I was Captaining the yacht for that ended up in yachting magazine. A lot of realtors here are also using them to take aerial photo's of homes. So they do have a real useful purpose as the footage is HD quality.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXooPP1k0tM

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by tigereye313:
If that operator were to be caught flying 700' AGL without a waiver from the FAA the new penalties under part 107 are stiff. A few high profile example cases will eventually make most people reconsider their drone flying habits.

Part 107 has made me reconsider future builds and even consider not flying a 4" I already have built. I am currently working on a sub 250 gram model for safety and legal reasons. Beyond that I would never consider intentionally cross the FAA as it could cost me my pilot's license.

Like any other activity, there will always be some ignorant mother heifers who choose not to follow the rules.

I know with the Phantoms and many others it restricts them from flying above 400' in the software. It's really amazing how advanced technologically some of these drones are.

They've replaced helicopters and professional photographers in them completely when making sales videos in the yachting industry. Most of the professional photographers use a combination of drones and still shots. Here's a video that was made with a combination of drone footage and still shots from another boat that I was Captaining the yacht for that ended up in yachting magazine. A lot of realtors here are also using them to take aerial photo's of homes. So they do have a real useful purpose as the footage is HD quality.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXooPP1k0tM

Absolutely. That is the plus side to part 107 is that it allows legal commercial use for drones, and those that go the effort and expense to get the license from the FAA are not likely to be the ones flying in places and altitiudes that they shouldn't (kinda like legal ccw vs. unlicensed carry).

quote:

Originally posted by walkinghorse:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/...ayer_rules_in_court/

So far one guy who shot down a drone has been winning in court, through an appeals court win. I
nteresting reading about a 1936 decision involving property and a 83' ceiling.

Open fucking season on drones over uninvited spaces.
If a helicopter or aircraft buzzes your house, get the tail number and report them.
A "drone" is not so easy.
Blast it down.

Link to original video: https://youtu.be/xq0oCM37oZA

A lot of ways to get in trouble with drones.

quote:

Originally posted by Chowser:
I thought they were limited to like 400 feet?

Yup, but if everybody obeyed the law we wouldn't need cops and you'd be out of a job.

There will be miscreants. Always.

A helicopter is a pretty thin and fragile device, unlike a pressurized commercial airliner.
The tail rotors are typically a pretty fragile, in the extreme. Flexible composite blades spinning a ridiculous RPM. They don't need much of an insult to shatter.

You don't want them to hit anything.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
how big would the drones have to be if they were maneuvered into commercial airliner engines on takeoff to bring the aircraft down?

Pretty big, and you'd have to take out multiple engines to bring it down. The engines can ingest a sizable bird before being damaged to the point of shutdown. The typical drone has very little metal in it so as to keep the weight down. A fan blade might get chipped, but that won't do much more than cause a little vibration. Fan blades get nicked by stones or birds and run just fine.

I also think a helicopter would survive a typical commercially available drone without much damage. The scene in the tv show linked by somebody seems overly dramatic.

I would be far more worried about the organized terrorist types who would purpose build a radio controlled device to bring down an aircraft. Something with a good chunk of hardened metal in it to either take out an engine or penetrate the windshield. Still, it would be very difficult to bring down the aircraft. We fly just fine on one engine or one pilot (though prefer to not have to do so!).

Taking out both engines would take extreme luck. No two airplanes fly the exact same climb profile because of many factors. The weaponized drones would have to have a lot of vertical speed capability as well as maneuverability. I don't see such an attack having much or any chance of success without true missile technology.

A lone douchebag on the other hand might manage with a commercial drone to strike an aircraft during takeoff or landing. Some minor damage might result but I would not expect it to bring the aircraft down.

We called the tower. They replied "Thanks for letting us know. We can't do anything to stop them or find them".

I only hope the douchebag posts a video that shows our tail number and can be traced back to him thru a YT account or the like.

My pilot would go to his house and remove his thumbs (not really).

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by tigereye313:
If that operator were to be caught flying 700' AGL without a waiver from the FAA the new penalties under part 107 are stiff. A few high profile example cases will eventually make most people reconsider their drone flying habits.

Part 107 has made me reconsider future builds and even consider not flying a 4" I already have built. I am currently working on a sub 250 gram model for safety and legal reasons. Beyond that I would never consider intentionally cross the FAA as it could cost me my pilot's license.

Like any other activity, there will always be some ignorant mother heifers who choose not to follow the rules.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
We called the tower. They replied "Thanks for letting us know. We can't do anything to stop them or find them".

I only hope the douchebag posts a video that shows our tail number and can be traced back to him thru a YT account or the like.

My pilot would go to his house and remove his thumbs (not really).

Bruce

Ignorance and stupidity has a way of catching up with people.

I fly airplanes and drones. I have 2 - 350 size quadcopters,(drones) a blade 350 qx3 and a DJI Phantom 2 vision plus. The blade I use for FPV and sport flying, the DJI I use for video.

I am registered with the FAA, and I am required to have my FAA number in any RC aircraft over half a pound.

Both my big drones can go out or up over a mile. I MYSELF set the computer limits to 300 feet up, and the return home feature automatically raises it or lowers the drone to 65 feet (Again, set by me) if it ever automatically or manually returns to home.

The DJI video drone, I keep line of sight, and do not like flying above 100 feet anyway. The 350 FPV drone, I fly around 200 feet up at most, and keep it within an 8th mile at most, to make sure I can get it back. (AND all this is at a flight field.)

Where I live, If I fly any of my drones, I'm either in my backyard, and 30 feet max up, or I'm running laps around the trees. There is several hospitals with heliports within 2 miles of me, so if I go even above the peak of my roof, it would surprise me. Plus, too many trees around me. If I go out of my backyard, I will lose site of the quads.

At a friends house,(subdivision) we always fly planes and drones over the houses, but never hover over or around anyone's house. Plus, we are at least twice as high as the houses, we don't want to ruin our drones either. All the neighbors know we do this, and do not mind. As a matter of fact, more times then not, they come over to talk, or their kids want to fly or watch on the monitors!

Most importantly, we are aware of our surroundings, and take action if out planes or drones come anywhere remotely close to other people or aircraft. Even at the flight field, we get helicopters crossing over from time to time. I seriously doubt they are under 400 feet, but no matter. If we can SEE a helicopter anywhere around the flight field, we bring our planes or drones down around 50 feet, or just land. We will not risk any complaints about our flying at the AMA sanctioned field.


Regardless of how safe we are, there will always be idiots flying drones. My drones do not have mandatory flight height restrictions, but I wouldn't care if they did. 400 feet is way too high for line of sight flying, and really, too high for FPV flying also, because everything is misleading that high up and only looking through goggles, through a camera mounted in front of the quad. (and I think it's actually 500 feet, but the AMA says 400 feet to be safe)

I'm more worried about the birds then a helicopter. I never had a helicopter try to chase my drone or planes, but I can't tell you how many time I had birds chase and attack them! I don't want to hurt a bird, but also don't want to lose my planes or drones either. This crap is expensive!

BTW. I have a total of 12 drones, 17 electric airplanes (18, I just ordered a vertical take off airplane!) and 9 nitro powered airplanes. (I sold all the helicopters, those bastards are hard to fly!)

Check out the video of my newest order.

Convergence VTOL