To me this looks like the perp is carrying a SAO 1911 style pistol...maybe a micro 9 like a 938. When the perp pulls it the split second it takes for him to try and deactivate the safety gets him 3 hot ones at close range. Nice shooting by the officer and good control not shooting the is that runs up after.

For CCW’ers the moral of the story is that if you carry a SAO gun make sure your draw and safety deactivation is done in one fluid movement.

Here is the story. They charged him brandishing a firearm....I would call this attempted murder of a police officer. If he had gotten that safety off I think he would have fired. Why else point at an officers face.

https://www.normantranscript.c...28-1b9b54f63c5e.html

And yet another example of how handguns are crappy self-defense weapons.

Seriously, thanks for this. I will note the video as an example of why one shouldn’t stick a gun in the face of someone who is less than arm’s length away. Good reaction by the officer, just as in the other recent one involving the woman officer contacting the murderer in the car.

The officers ability to control the perp's gun with his off hand while drawing was impressive. That one move afforded him the time he needed to respond.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
For CCW’ers the moral of the story is that if you carry a SAO gun make sure your draw and safety deactivation is done in one fluid movement.

Or just flat out refuse to carry a weapon that has a manual safety on it.

I don't like to look a these videos and relate to the "losers" for lessons learned. They are just victims (in a literal sense, not a good-bad, or legal sense).

It doesn't matter what type of gun you carry, if you expect to perform under pressure you'd better have trained enough to be unconsciously competent with it. If so, safety/no safety won't matter.

As to the winner; He had a great initial reaction deflecting the gun offline while simultaneously drawing and engaging. Good lesson learned that it makes sense to train the integration of offhand striking and close quarter shooting.

My only critique would be that ideally, you should be moving in and closing distance in a situation like this not moving back. Why? Because look how much room opens up for the perp to shoot back. If you strike/deflect while moving in and shoot from retention, they are unable to regain their field of fire back. Bonus points for moving forward and to their offside.

Overall, good shoot and reaction by the officer, and he also had a great reaction to the unarmed kid while under full adrenaline having just shot this clown!

A good lesson to learn for all of us.
While the perp is not to be empathized with, that does t mean we can’t glean knowledge from this encounter.
It’s one reason why I’ve simplified my pistol collection to striker fired only. I’m not as proficient as I’d like to be and, even though I started with 1911s, striker fired is as simple as can be.
Ive had a chance to do some simunition training with LE and the overwhelming lesson learned for me was the speed with which a “normal” encounter can change.

Practice all you want deactivating a manual safety.
"...making sure..." isn't apt to happen and
there isn't apt to be one fluid motion other than
pointing and pulling the trigger. When all that
stress is rattling around in your brain. I hear this about practicing that one fluid movement.
Been there__more than once.
No manual safeties! Point and fire!
Military arms mandate a manual safety but__ the pistols aren't intended for quick SD situations.
And, of course there's the other attitude about
"soldiers"...
Stay safe
Poli Viejo

I have not carried a pistol with a manual safety for years. Even in practice sessions I had problems always getting the safety off with 1911’s so I got away from them.

And people wonder why police officers interact with everyone as if they have a weapon and want to kill them.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
For CCW’ers the moral of the story is that if you carry a SAO gun make sure your draw and safety deactivation is done in one fluid movement.

Or just flat out refuse to carry a weapon that has a manual safety on it.

Yeah, "fluid" or not, when it comes to instantaneous life and death situations, any gun that requires 2 actions (flip off safety & squeeze trigger) will always have more chances of seeing Mr. Murphy than one requiring only one action (squeeze trigger).

That was very Vincent-like from the Tom Cruise movie Collateral in the alley scene.

So why not charge the perp with attempted murder? Judging by the video, it would be hard to expect anything else. The perp had an arrest warrant out for him, he pulls a gun and immediately points it at the officer's head, probably 99.9999% of the time this happens the perp is trying to kill the officer and get away. Is the DA anti-police?

Hopefully between his recent felony armed robbery charge and this incident, he will be in prison for 15+ years.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
So why not charge the perp with attempted murder? Judging by the video, it would be hard to expect anything else. The perp had an arrest warrant out for him, he pulls a gun and immediately points it at the officer's head, probably 99.9999% of the time this happens the perp is trying to kill the officer and get away. Is the DA anti-police?

Hopefully between his recent felony armed robbery charge and this incident, he will be in prison for 15+ years.

I'm guessing that it is either the way the local laws are written and/or what the DA thinks will actually get a conviction. But I agree with you; the perp had every intention of murdering the police officer.



.

It's worth developing the muscle memory to use the manual safety. Anyone who carries will be handling a loaded, charged handgun vastly more times than he'll be drawing/firing defensively. A manual safety greatly reduces the chance of an AD/ND. Also, if someone gets control of your gun, they won't have trained with a manual safety (and you will have, because you know you have to), and they may very well have the safety failure that saves your life (this is NOT theoretical. There have been documented cases.)

Yes, manual safeties are more work. Yes, they're worth it.

It's obvious the perp in this video did not. He also didn't develop any close combat skills, which the LEO most definitely did.

Another thing that should go without saying: Always carry one in the chamber.

Take that one more step. Make sure you have one in the chamber. It's one thing to decide you don't want one in the chamber (a bad idea, but at least it's intentional.) It's a completely other problem to think you have one in the chamber, but not. I hear this is a fairly common error.

quote:

Originally posted by skonie:
Another thing that should go without saying: Always carry one in the chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
It's worth developing the muscle memory to use the manual safety. Anyone who carries will be handling a loaded, charged handgun vastly more times than he'll be drawing/firing defensively. A manual safety greatly reduces the chance of an AD/ND. Also, if someone gets control of your gun, they won't have trained with a manual safety (and you will have, because you know you have to), and they may very well have the safety failure that saves your life (this is NOT theoretical. There have been documented cases.)

Yes, manual safeties are more work. Yes, they're worth it.

It's obvious the perp in this video did not. He also didn't develop any close combat skills, which the LEO most definitely did.

To each their own. I have no worries about handling a loaded and chambered DA/SA Sig Sauer pistol. A thumb behind the hammer when holstering does a lot for piece of mind. Similarly, with a P7M8, a thumb on the back of the slide when holstering is very reassuring. With a P7, one can work the trigger until their finger falls off, but if the pistol is not cocked (which results in the striker sticking out the back of the slide), the pistol cannot fire.

Granted, a simpler manual of arms would make it simpler for someone who takes your gun away from you to use it against you and that may be an argument for safeties, grip safeties, magazine disconnect safeties, and whatever you want to do that makes it harder for someone else to use your gun against you (including Israeli carry if you want to go that far). I just choose to keep things simple and focus on DA/SA Sigs and strive to not let others know I have a gun unless / until (heaven forbid) it becomes necessary to fire on them. YMMV.

DA/SA isn't bad. At least you have to pull through the long hard DA trigger, which, as designed, acts as a safety. When wrote my post, I was thinking more in terms of striker guns with no manual safety.

Of course, with DA/SA, you have to master the DA pull and the transition to SA. I consider that an even money trade off to working the safety into your muscle memory. What I like about manual safety guns is that the trigger stroke is always the same. Also, with a safety gun, you can ride your thumb under the safety, ensuring that it's up, the same way you can ride the hammer on a hammer gun to feel if it's starting to move.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
It's worth developing the muscle memory to use the manual safety. Anyone who carries will be handling a loaded, charged handgun vastly more times than he'll be drawing/firing defensively. A manual safety greatly reduces the chance of an AD/ND. Also, if someone gets control of your gun, they won't have trained with a manual safety (and you will have, because you know you have to), and they may very well have the safety failure that saves your life (this is NOT theoretical. There have been documented cases.)

Yes, manual safeties are more work. Yes, they're worth it.

It's obvious the perp in this video did not. He also didn't develop any close combat skills, which the LEO most definitely did.

To each their own. I have no worries about handling a loaded and chambered DA/SA Sig Sauer pistol. A thumb behind the hammer when holstering does a lot for piece of mind. Similarly, with a P7M8, a thumb on the back of the slide when holstering is very reassuring. With a P7, one can work the trigger until their finger falls off, but if the pistol is not cocked (which results in the striker sticking out the back of the slide), the pistol cannot fire.

Granted, a simpler manual of arms would make it simpler for someone who takes your gun away from you to use it against you and that may be an argument for safeties, grip safeties, magazine disconnect safeties, and whatever you want to do that makes it harder for someone else to use your gun against you (including Israeli carry if you want to go that far). I just choose to keep things simple and focus on DA/SA Sigs and strive to not let others know I have a gun unless / until (heaven forbid) it becomes necessary to fire on them. YMMV.

"A safety will get you killed" has always been my long standing opinion, and that has not changed. I refuse to carry any gun that has a manual safety.

In fact, even when I was very young and before I knew much about firearms beyond what I saw in the movies and my toy collection, I instinctively thought that when the "safety" was on, it meant that the gun was ready to fire and ready to keep you safe. Having the "safety off" meant you were in danger because you were now unable to protect yourself since the gun would not fire. At least that's the way my eight year old mind reasoned it.