quote:

Originally posted by mojojojo:

quote:

Originally posted by cajunmuscle:
Classy.

When the shoe fits my little troglodyte friend.

I like that….
I’ve been called a knuckle dragger plenty in my life . The world needs more knuckle dragging cavemen to keep the world safe. Enjoy your night lil guy

OK, guys.

cajunmuscle, you started this thread with a question that wasn't really a question. Your mind was made up, and if you had simply come out at plainly stated what you wanted to say, without the pretense of asking a question, it would have been better all around.

What do you think you've accomplished with the way this thread has developed? Did you expect members to simply agree with you? Or do you just want to be right, no matter what? Framing your opinion as a question implies that you want to hear from others, and when asking such a question, it's understood that others may disagree with your premise.

Don't you like your fellow forum members, or do you not care?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
OK, guys.

cajunmuscle, you started this thread with a question that wasn't really a question. Your mind was made up, and if you had simply come out at plainly stated what you wanted to say, without the pretense of asking a question, it would have been better all around.

What do you think you've accomplished with the way this thread has developed? Did you expect members to simply agree with you? Or do you just want to be right, no matter what? Framing your opinion as a question implies that you want to hear from others, and when asking such a question, it's understood that others may disagree with your premise.

Don't you like your fellow forum members, or do you not care?

Of course I like my fellow members. I've never said anything disrespectful in this thread. Several members have been clearly disrespectful toward me though. I also received 4 emails with almost unhinged comments (2 from the same guy). It's all good though. No hard feelings at all. I'm a grown man and dont get hurt feelings. I posted a question here and wanted some debate. Debate is healthy and open dialogue is good. Even heated dialogue is good. It's when we arent talking things fall apart.

So, what do you think is the source of the friction?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
So, what do you think is the source of the friction?

super good question. I believe it's the constant thought of always having to defend the police. Even it means going down with the ship. calling out questionable tactics or wrongdoing only solidifies and reaffirms the good job that most cops are engaged in on a daily basis. We have to keep the profession honest. The profession has taken a drastic turn for the worse over the last ten years or so. The diminishing of hiring standards nationwide has had drastic impact. The overall quality of applicants and subsequent hires is atrocious. Some squared away men and women get on and do a great job. The majority, not so much. I'm talking young men and women who are absolutely fat bodies. Soft bodies too. Most havent even been in a physical altercation in their entire life. Most cant scale a 6 foot wall in PT gear, I'm not even talking in full kit. We removed tons of the PT standards, we got rid of boxing, we dumbed down the quals. I could go on and on. Let me ask you this, why are hiring standards always lowered and never raised? It's translating into officers using deadly force when lots of the time they should just be kicking the shit out of the perp. Damn I miss my sap. New guys have zero clue what that is. Im just glad Im retired now. It disgusts me what's out there now days. There are a few good ones out there and I feel sorry for you guys. There is ZERO blue wall or brotherhood now.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am not LE, but I have heard about Izzo's escapades and general assholery.

I'll bet CDP SIG has a better bead on the asshole.

I have no experience or insight to give about Izzo.
He never worked anywhere near me.

Honestly, Im not on facebook, I don’t really watch any of police related stuff outside the job, and not a fan of most police shows.
I see that shit way too much “live and in person”.
Sometimes, on bad days, Im the person.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CPD SIG,

Cajun, take a look at a calendar and realize that it’s 2026.

The day of “You must be this tall to get on this ride” are O V E R.
Hell, the days of “you must be this smart to get on this job” are over as well.

Again, it’s 2026. Im sure you know how much a discrimination lawsuit would cost a department. Then multiply it by whatever number the “class action suit” is going to be from all the short / overweight / stupid people.

Im happy that I’m at the end of the road.
I have about 3 years left, unless someone pisses me off.
I just got fucked out of a really, really good spot on my Department. With us (CPD), “clout” / Chinaman / phone call outweighs ability, knowledge and work ethic every day.
I’ll get back to this later.

Training is a huge problem for a lot of departments across the country.
Police Departments are overseen by local governments, local governments now-a-days want and demand a “kinder, gentler police department”. The “hug-a-thug” mentality.

Tasers aren’t as effective as most think. But the “optics” of me (6’2” 220) zapping someone vs me lumping the dogshit out of someone with my fists, nightstick/collapsable baton is now what matters.

A tasers isn’t going to work at all when the bad guy has layers of clothes on because it’s 20F outside. A punch to the face is more effective (I really like body shots, as my hands hurt from breaking the carpals a few times , Im sure you can figure out the “how” on a few of those times)

The old Kell Lights, C cell / D cell maglights- way of the Dodo bird, my friend.
If you can’t figure out why, then you just don’t understand today’s world of Policing.

I walk around the station, or the academy when the recruits are running around, and I feel like a giant. That phenomenon isn’t just here in Chicago, or New York, or L.A. a bunch of kids that look like they couldn’t fight, fuck or run a foot race. (Extra points if you can figure out that line)
Training? Bare minimum of any kind of “combat” or hand-to-hand type stuff.
Maximum amount of training when it comes to dealing with the marginalized population- lgbperfs, immigrants, non English speakers, crazy people, de-escalation tactics that are getting cops hurt and killed…

There was an incident here years ago where a crazy guy spit at then attempted to punch a Chicago Cop. The cop was pretty damn good with and regularly worked out on BJJ.
The cop dumped the guy pretty quickly, locked him up.
The civilian investigation agency that investigates complaints against officers (including excessive force) roasted this cop.
Stripped of his police powers, no way of working any overtime / side job involving security… then got suspended for a pretty long time- I think it was around 3 months.
All because the bad guy picked a fight with someone way tougher and better skilled than him.
And the cop got fucked. “When did the Chicago Police Department train you like that? Where did you see that in your general orders?”
Unfortunately, now stories like this are more common than ever.
My mind is a little foggy because of 30 years, and a few too many punches to the head, but IIRC- Gerald Williams was the Cops name.

“Bad optics”.
I don’t care if you agree with it, disagree with it. It’s the reality of modern day policing in a lot of cities.

You want “thoughts”?
Here’s “reality”:
Maybe if the cop was tougher, maybe the cop could have knocked the shit out of the bad guy.
Now you have the next excessive force lawsuit, explaining it to the public after an investigation. Before the investigation, assholes from black LIES matter get to come to that little town and create havoc, and fuel the flames for another “mostly peaceful summer” like 2020.
Please don’t think we’re that far away from more “mostly peaceful protests”.
What I see every fucking time I watch one of these BWC videos of a shooting: I see a pawn. The disposable piece on the board. Political winds are blowing in a certain direction, that pawn gets fucked, or GETS FUCKED. Cop gets fired, or cop goes to prison. Even if it’s a good shooting.

30+ years of being a Street Cop.
Tactical Teams, Gang Teams, Narcotics, Special Operations, Mission Teams, with intermittent short times of being back in a Beat Car. Now, I get my very own Tactical Team. 10 cops- some of whom I have uniform pants that are older) all full of piss and vinegar, who all just love to lock up real bad guys. And I get to run the show.
Thoughts?
Every contact we have with someone, even if it’s done right, it’s still “wrong” according to our rules and civilian oversight agency. And we’re looking at suspension time.

That spot I got fucked out of? At this point, it would have been perfect for me.
I have the experience, I know what I’m doing. That spot is still outside- because even at this juncture, I still can’t work inside. More importantly- ZERO with the actual “enforcement” part of playing Cops and Robbers. Because that’s about where I’m at with my Department.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CPD SIG,

Here we go again…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwLf2CiAxY&ra=m

^^^^

The above shooting happened here in Louisville.

Police Chief in process of firing officer for excessive use of force, and look for criminal indictment soon.

https://www.wdrb.com/news/crim...d3-1dc35a985073.html

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

Im happy that I’m at the end of the road.
I have about 3 years left, unless someone pisses me off.

You remind me of my home town police back in the 1960's and 1970's. It was a bit of a Mayberry, small town but upscale incomes. There were two officers directing traffic downtown on Saturdays because there weren't traffic lights. We kids feared getting caught when we did stupid but not criminal things, because we'd get taken home to our parents. Stuff like being off-campus from school.

It was rare, but sometimes someone would get taken down for a serious crime. The officers knew how to play hardball when needed.

Those were the good old days. Police were respected, criminals weren't made out to be the victims of society and thus coddled.

About 30 years ago, my uncle started saying, "I'm glad I'm on my way out of this world rather than on my way in". I can relate these days.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
^^^^

The above shooting happened here in Louisville.

Police Chief in process of firing officer for excessive use of force, and look for criminal indictment soon.

https://www.wdrb.com/news/crim...d3-1dc35a985073.html

They may want to be careful with this. I know several current and former Metro Louisville Officers. Everything they tell me, folks are jumping off that department like a sinking ship already.

I think the Taylor thing proved they don't give a shit about their officers.

quote:

look like they couldn’t fight, fuck or run a foot race. (Extra points if you can figure out that line)
Training?

I'm claiming my extra points, I haven't heard that in a long time.


My son, a medically retired cop, runs a POST training academy. He tells me that every class is just a little bit more out of shape and disinterested in the training than the class before.

quote:

Originally posted by Loaded Round:

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
^^^^

The above shooting happened here in Louisville.

Police Chief in process of firing officer for excessive use of force, and look for criminal indictment soon.

https://www.wdrb.com/news/crim...d3-1dc35a985073.html

They may want to be careful with this. I know several current and former Metro Louisville Officers. Everything they tell me, folks are jumping off that department like a sinking ship already.

I think the Taylor thing proved they don't give a shit about their officers.

The Metro PD has been a mess ever since the 2002 Merger of City & County govts. City Govt was always Democrat-controlled (since 1968), while County Govt had a more Republican flavor, with the corresponding PDs reflective of same. Countywide Merger was sold as a “bill of goods” in order to get Jerry ”Mayor-for-Life” Abramson a bigger role for later State and Federal positions.

Metro PD is at least 200 positions short staffed, and some of the new hires have been less than stellar; former Atlanta PD chief who had been fired/resigned was then hired by Louisville Dem mayor without proper vetting. It’s been downhill ever since with total Dem control over all Govt operations and agencies.

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:
He tells me that every class is just a little bit more out of shape and disinterested in the training than the class before.

What do we expect? This is what people demanded.

There was an outcry to end “golden parachutes” (20 and out retirement). There were several very vocal about it 10 years or so ago on this very forum. At least here, they did. Baby coppers get money into a 401k. Healthcare generally sucks in most places (see Obamacare). Some states have all but done away with qualified immunity. Another thing that commonly comes up on this forum.

When you couple that with a lot of agencies that pay less than an assistant manager at McDonalds, THIS is what you get. I’m not even going to get into the bad agencies or craven politicians that want the police to be anything and everything but the police.

Also seems like virtually everyone under the age of 35 is on some type of medication, particularly long term anxiety meds. But that is most of society it seems.

Why would successful young men want to get into this line of work when they can get a job that pays way more without the risk.

If we do not take active steps as a society to fix it, things will continue to worsen.

All gloom and doom? If you work at a good agency, this is the golden age of policing. If the agency pays enough, and more importantly has great leadership, they recruit laterals from all over. I work in one of those places.

Edited to correct autocorrect

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jljones,

quote:

Originally posted by cajunmuscle:
Here we go again…

Don't you have an AntiFa meeting to attend?



.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
^^^^The above shooting happened here in Louisville.

What was the officer supposed to do? He already knew the man was violent and out of his mind.

I don't intend this to sound flippant, this is an honest question. Was he supposed to wait until the naked, crazed man jumped on him?



.

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:

quote:

look like they couldn’t fight, fuck or run a foot race. (Extra points if you can figure out that line)
Training?

I'm claiming my extra points, I haven't heard that in a long time.

You can claim the points after you tell us the Movie!

To answer the original question as phrased
From the potential victim / perpetrator point of view
There are certain situations in everyday life that most people learn early
For example nobody goes to an airport and jokes about a bomb
Nobody acts out in a Federal building
Nobody acts out in gun store
Acting in an aggressive manner is normally frowned upon
Any aggressive behavior around Law Enforcement is ill advised
I would not be”Surprised “ if I acted aggressively and found that I have been shot
I would Expect that outcome
In other words “FAFO”
I am not referring to “Law” but more to the “Odds” of outcome

The police union president in Columbus OH defended a recent officer involved shooting. He basically said that the bad guy’s action time is always faster than the officers’ reaction time. I thought that’s a good way to look at it.

I'd also add "Don't pick fights with bouncers/in a bar with bouncers with cauliflower ears..."