The power stroke is a poor choice for many people. It’s the choice because there are really no other option.

If you are hauling your RV to FL or AZ and back once a year you don’t really need the expense or maintenance requirements of a modern diesel pickup truck. As has been mentioned a rental fleet doesn’t need the complications.

It has power numbers that are pretty close to what the original 7.3 diesel power stroke advertised. Fuel prices have since flipped, gas being at times a full dollar less than the diesel.

I drive a diesel every day. It would take quite a bit to talk me into paying a premium to drive one. I’ll admit up front I don’t live in a mountainous area.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Ok, as somebody who's driven a truck for some 30 years now, I have no earthly idea why this engine exists. Those people who want a truck but don't need one, or commercial companies that need light duty or supervisory trucks, the F-150 with an eco-boost is the go to option. The 5.0 Liter Coyote has been all but sworn off in the truck. Now if you need a heavy duty truck to work, haul, or tow with, the F-250/F-350 is the go to option with the 6.7 Liter Powerstroke diesel. I know a whole bunch of folks with F-250's and not one of them sports a gas engine.

Again, I have no idea why this new large displacement gas engine exists given it likely has less longevity, lower fuel economy, and lower capabilities than the Powerstroke.

It cost less to buy and will be cheaper to maintain. No DEF, no particulate filter, no SCR, none of that nonsense down the exhaust.

I worked for Cummins for 20 years and would never own a diesel pickup. Too expensive to buy and maintain. Also, does anyone really have 25,000 pounds to tow?

Sorry bigdeal, I agree with lunchbox. Has not always been this way. But the do-gooders have screwed this up so bad that currently lunchbox has it right.
There are still those who need a "real truck" Sorry F150 boys and girls. That one don't cut it.

Low and slow and a big payload is still a requirement for many and as I said the g-weenies have made the diesels and relic of the past. Which is always the intent of those that want every body in an apartment and with in walking distance to everything they think we need.

I think this may pan out for Ford. I hope so.

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
And Ford's already confirmed, it will fit in a Mustang...

Would it fit in my 1966 Mustang? . . . .

flashguy

The only benefit I'm getting out of my diesel is power. For about $2,000, I could get rid of all the economy robbing emissions crap, but that $2,000 buys a lot of fuel. At the time I bought my truck, the gas version wasn't rated to tow what I tow. I'm willing to bet the new 7.3 gas with 4.1 gears will be. And no, even if I didn't tow my 5th wheel, an F150 wouldn't be the best choice for my boat. Sure, you can spec the max tow and max payload packages on the F150, but it costs as much or a bit more than an F250. Good luck trying to find a dealer that has on. Finding F250s is easy.

If Ford would put a small turbo charger on this new motor, we coulda get a true apples to apples gas vs diesel comparison.

Speaking of diesels, the 150’s and 1500’s are getting a big boost with new engines. F150, the Chevy/GMC with the new inline six Duramax,and now Ram will have their gen III diesel for their 1500s (including the Rebel). Ram’s new diesel engine can tow more than 12,500lbs (and get great gas mileage compared to their gas counterparts). So unless one has to have a 2500 (gas or diesel), most people would accomplish their mission with these new trucks. If you need to tow more than say 15,000lbs, then a 350 or 3500 diesel dually would make more sense.
We’ll see how how the 250s and 2500s are affected by new technology in the next couple of years as far as sales are concerned.

Unless big strides are made in terms of maintenance and cost they will be a big flop if you ask me. I would have no interest in a diesel 1/2ton chasis with a diesel for a grocery hauler. Which is what 95% of the consumers would use them for.

But then again their is the bio-diesel gang

quote:

Originally posted by lunchbox:
No DEF, no particulate filter, no SCR, none of that nonsense down the exhaust.

Most of the guys I know with diesels have done an EGR and DEF delete on their trucks. Would absolutely be something I'd do if I drove a diesel.

quote:

Also, does anyone really have 25,000 pounds to tow?

The guys I know who have diesels darn sure don't have them to drive the kids to soccer practice. One guy I know who owns a site prep company tows a couple different railers, one with multiple skid steers on it, and another with one huge ass excavator and some other gear and attachments. He's easily over 15k+ on each trailer. I stand by my initial assertion, if you're buying a 3/4 ton (or bigger) truck to do real work with, a diesel option is the only option I'd consider.

I live in the Rocky Mountains: I've put my Nissan Armada and travel trailer on a CAT scale and my rig is supposedly within towing specs yet it barely moves at times when I tow, for example, through Logan Canyon or the Island Park areas.
It's so bad, I'll only use my dad's Duramax now. Maybe for you folks who don't live and tow in areas with real mountains it will work, but elsewhere not so much. For reference, an XD Titan with a Cummings turbo diesel has better torque and it isn't a powerful engine compared to the US heavy duty models and the XD has more torque than the Ford. I doubt this motor will catch on in the Western US which is frustrating as I was interested in it for all the reasons relating to cost, complexity, etc. related to diesel motors.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by ScooterX:
Meh. The torque peak is too far up the rpm ladder.

Wait, what?!?!

400 lb ft of torque at 1500 RPM isn't good enough for you? What kind of application would it not be adequate for?

Compared to modern diesels engines, it's about half the torque at the rpm you list.
I'm not in the 4500 rpm long for any engine. If you tow, having peak torque at lower rpm is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
And Ford's already confirmed, it will fit in a Mustang...

Would it fit in my 1966 Mustang? . . . .

flashguy

Your rear wheels would probably be off the ground with a such a big engine that has an iron block.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lunchbox:
No DEF, no particulate filter, no SCR, none of that nonsense down the exhaust.

Most of the guys I know with diesels have done an EGR and DEF delete on their trucks. Would absolutely be something I'd do if I drove a diesel.[QUOTE]

All of that work just adds to the cost of an already more expensive Diesel engine. Also, like I said I was dealing with these trucks daily while I worked at cummins and I know more than a dozen guys that got a letter in the mail from the EPA after they illegally deleted their diesel emissions equipment, this is a big no no just ask VW. The shops that do the work get basically raided buy the epa and are forced to hand over records, then you get a letter in the mail.

As for the high towing capacity of the diesel, how did we move heavy stuff around up until recently? Diesel dodge trucks only made 160 hp and something like 400 pound feet of toque in 1990. This whole “my diesel truck makes 900 pounds feet of torque is a new thing.

Ever price diesel parts? Set of injectors for a 2007 dodge with the 6.7 diesel is about $3600 for reman units from cummins. I can’t tell you how many guys about cried when I told them that. Start messing with programming like a bully dog programmer and I would bet anything you’ll buy injectors early, way early.

Diesel engine were my life for 20 years and my father who just retired from Cummins after 47 years, neither of us have any plans to ever buy a diesel.

quote:

I stand by my initial assertion, if you're buying a 3/4 ton (or bigger) truck to do real work with, a diesel option is the only option I'd consider.

Based on my real world experience with Ford Superduties that's simply bad advice for most buyers. There is a tiny, tiny fraction of this market that the current EPA diesels make any sense. That fraction is super big towing loads and super high mileage. For example on the F350CC that I tow 5th wheel horses the max capacity for the diesel is 3K higher than the 6.2l gas. (in a F250 the gas motor can actually tow more). If you need capabilities that are not available in the gas motor you have no choice. And if you want real serious towing numbers in a superduty you have to buy the diesel. But getting that capability comes with serious and continuing costs. You start out in the hole $9K for the motor upgrade. And everything after that is more in costs. Towing you get it back little by little with better fuel economy, but the breakeven is in the 100's of K miles. In addition these motors have serious maintenance issues because of the emissions package. I have multiple superduties. I've lived through tens and tens of thousands of dollars in fixing post warranty PS issues. EGR's, turbo's, manifolds, downpipes, exhaust gaskets, studs, etc. These issues are simply not in the gas motors. With my loads the current 6.2 is way less capable towing than a 6.9L PS, so I'm glad Ford is offering something more. I've had a F350 diesel since the first ones became available but I wouldn't buy another one.

^^ YEP and yep on the last two post's. Could not agree more.

And in addition to hr's last paragraph. Surely that is why Ford is going down this road with this engine in their Super Duty gas line.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Ok, as somebody who's driven a truck for some 30 years now, I have no earthly idea why this engine exists. Those people who want a truck but don't need one, or commercial companies that need light duty or supervisory trucks, the F-150 with an eco-boost is the go to option. The 5.0 Liter Coyote has been all but sworn off in the truck. Now if you need a heavy duty truck to work, haul, or tow with, the F-250/F-350 is the go to option with the 6.7 Liter Powerstroke diesel. I know a whole bunch of folks with F-250's and not one of them sports a gas engine.

Again, I have no idea why this new large displacement gas engine exists given it likely has less longevity, lower fuel economy, and lower capabilities than the Powerstroke.

Are you familiar with our Lord and Savior the Diesel Particulate Filter?

quote:

Originally posted by ScooterX:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by ScooterX:
Meh. The torque peak is too far up the rpm ladder.

Wait, what?!?!

400 lb ft of torque at 1500 RPM isn't good enough for you? What kind of application would it not be adequate for?

Compared to modern diesels engines, it's about half the torque at the rpm you list.
I'm not in the 4500 rpm long for any engine. If you tow, having peak torque at lower rpm is a good thing.

Please show me what engine that can produce 800 lbs of torque at 1500 RPM, it doesn't exist, I promise you that. At 4,500 RPM it only produces 460 or so of torque so what does the 4,000 RPM have to do with anything other than that it is close to peak torque?

Not sure why you are hating on a motor that is for a limited set of people, for those that need this specific set up it's great that it is still offered. My car is a 2.7 and makes 380lbs of torque, if you go by pure numbers why would anyone want this motor?

Edited because I don't know what I'm talking about apparently.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Skins2881,

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by ScooterX:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by ScooterX:
Meh. The torque peak is too far up the rpm ladder.

Wait, what?!?!

400 lb ft of torque at 1500 RPM isn't good enough for you? What kind of application would it not be adequate for?

Compared to modern diesels engines, it's about half the torque at the rpm you list.
I'm not in the 4500 rpm long for any engine. If you tow, having peak torque at lower rpm is a good thing.

Please show me what engine that can produce 800 lbs of torque at 1500 RPM, it doesn't exist, I promise you that. At 4,500 RPM it only produces 460 or so of torque so what does the 4,000 RPM have to do with anything other than that it is close to peak torque?

Not sure why you are hating on a motor that is for a limited set of people, for those that need this specific set up it's great that it is still offered. My car is a 2.7 and makes 380lbs of torque, if you go by pure numbers why would anyone want this motor?

Most 1/2 ton truck diesels produce over that much peak torque and a lot of times at 1500 RPM's will put out 800 lbs of torque.

Peak Torque:
935 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm (2018, see model year breakdown in chart below) (2018 F 250)

2018
445 hp @ 2,800 rpm
910 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm
-(2018 Duramax)

quote:

Originally posted by 380Swift:
Are you familiar with our Lord and Savior the Diesel Particulate Filter?

Yep. Yet another stupid on steroids mandate thanks to the morons in Washington. Also readily familiar with the wonderful EGR setup mandated on diesels whereby they lose power and fuel economy while suffering major carbon build up inside the motor, all to appease the global warming tree huggers. Likely, oOne of the biggest reasons people who own diesels are deleting these retarded systems from their trucks.

I'm of a mindset that if we could delete all the moronic BS that's mandated to be on these trucks by the mental midgets in Washington, the trucks would cost far less to buy, cost less to maintain, be more reliable, get better fuel economy, and in the end, be more capable. When a half ton truck of any flavor retails for $60k and HD trucks routinely go for ~$80k, we've departed the rails into stupid town, which coincidentally, is exactly where we are today.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by 380Swift:
Are you familiar with our Lord and Savior the Diesel Particulate Filter?

Yep. Yet another stupid on steroids mandate thanks to the morons in Washington. Also readily familiar with the wonderful EGR setup mandated on diesels whereby they lose power and fuel economy while suffering major carbon build up inside the motor, all to appease the global warming tree huggers. Likely, oOne of the biggest reasons people who own diesels are deleting these retarded systems from their trucks.

I'm of a mindset that if we could delete all the moronic BS that's mandated to be on these trucks by the mental midgets in Washington, the trucks would cost far less to buy, cost less to maintain, be more reliable, get better fuel economy, and in the end, be more capable. When a half ton truck of any flavor retails for $60k and HD trucks routinely go for ~$80k, we've departed the rails into stupid town, which coincidentally, is exactly where we are today.

You're absolutely correct. With the EGR and DEF delete people are making a lot more power, while getting over 20% better fuel economy and none of the diesel particulate filter issues.

A diesel mechanic buddy of mine, he works on marine diesels and Yamaha outboards, has a old F 250 7.3L powerstroke. He runs the truck on 50% used motor oil, all he does is put a paint filter in the funnel and pours it right into the fuel tank and mixes it as much as 75/25% (diesel). At 50/50 it runs better, doesn't smoke at all, is quieter with less injector noise, and makes more power......75/25 it will start smoking blue smoke out of the exhaust after idling for more than 5 minutes. But the truck has 500k miles on it and he's been doing this for 7 years. He'll do an oil change on a set of C 18 cats in a yacht, walk right out to the marina parking lot and dump 20+ gallons of used motor oil in the fuel tanks, and take the buckets back and drain the other motor or generators.

Ford's big block gas engines never ever have set the world on fire in the HP or torque department. Has everyone forgotten that anemic V10 they were using 10 years ago. But you need the displacement to move heavy vehicles.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Ok, as somebody who's driven a truck for some 30 years now, I have no earthly idea why this engine exists. Those people who want a truck but don't need one, or commercial companies that need light duty or supervisory trucks, the F-150 with an eco-boost is the go to option. The 5.0 Liter Coyote has been all but sworn off in the truck. Now if you need a heavy duty truck to work, haul, or tow with, the F-250/F-350 is the go to option with the 6.7 Liter Powerstroke diesel. I know a whole bunch of folks with F-250's and not one of them sports a gas engine.

Again, I have no idea why this new large displacement gas engine exists given it likely has less longevity, lower fuel economy, and lower capabilities than the Powerstroke.

Easy my friend...

Even though i’m a believer in the Power Stroke diesels having owned many since 2000 the fact is that they are more expensive to maintain and operate.

No need to argue about it. It’s just a fact.

For many companies a gas engine that can go 200k plus miles under severe conditions (heavy load and long idling times) will be cheaper to operate.

Uses like ambulances, tow trucks, smaller dump trucks and other uses in the 1 to 2 ton category will be the major target along with gas RV’s.