quote:

Originally posted by UpTheIrons:
Hathcock is well known, Chuck Mawhinney is not.

The most recorded kills for an American sniper.

I have the book Marine Sniper 93 confirmed Kills authored by Charles Henderson bought it at the local Half Price Book store.

I bought it because on the title page it is signed "Carlos N Hathcock II".
I walked out with it for $7.50.

I guess the pierced and tattooed workers that staff the book store did not know the signature was of the subject and not the author.

HK Ag

More detail on the killing of “The Apache Woman”:

Hathcock was not the only infamous Vietnam figurehead being talked about and feared. A Vietnamese female platoon leader, interrogator and sniper known as “Apache” created quite the name for herself. She was not known for her leadership skills or even her sniper skills, but for her propensity toward torturing American “GIs.”

The name “Apache” was a nod toward the Apache Indians, who were known for their “creative” methods of torture before killing their victims. One of her signature moves involved placing herself and the prisoner of war within ear shot of a U.S. base. Why? To make sure U.S. soldiers heard her victim’s screams. This was a trap coupled with psychological warfare. Even if the Americans didn’t take the bait by running toward the GI to save him and then being killed themselves by one of her snipers, they would be forced to listen as their brother was tortured and left to die.

During her reign of terror, Americans would find her victims without eyelids, she kept them as trophies. Victims were found skinned and with fingernails missing. She made it a point to castrate them as well. She would leave them to bleed to death, or let them go knowing they wouldn’t survive.

Graphic Torture
Apache was overheard once talking to her victim, according to an excerpt in the book “Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills” by Charles Henderson. Warning: The excerpt is graphic:

“You cherry boy? I think maybe no. You get plenty p**** back stateside, yeah. You get Vietnamese p**** too? I think you do. You go China Beach swimming, f*** plenty. You like get cherry p****? Plenty American GI like cherry p****. F*** many young girl-take cherry p****. True! I know true. You mother****** GI!” she said. “You no f*** no more,” she said, as she approached him with a long, curved knife in her hand. Taking his genitals in her left hand, she jammed the blade’s point beneath the base of his penis, grazing his pubic bone. She pulled the knife with a sweeping, circular cut that released both testicles and his penis in one large handful of flesh that gushed with blood. She said, shaking with laughter, “Run, GI. Maybe you live-you find doctor in time! Run to wire. We watch Marines shoot you motherf*****.”

Carlos Hathcock vs. Apache
After this, Hathcock had had enough. He and his spotter finally got the opportunity they were looking for. They spotted a sniper platoon about 700 yards away:

“We were in the midst of switching rifles. We saw them, I saw a group coming, five of them. I saw her squat to pee; that’s how I knew it was her. They tried to get her to stop, but she didn’t stop. I stopped her. I put one extra in her for good measure.”

The shots fired by Hathcock completely shattered Apache’s spine and blew out all of her lower organs. A key moral victory for the U.S. troops, for Hathcock, and justice served for the ones brutally tortured at her hand.

link

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
"Forgotten History"? By whom? Millennial milquetoast pajamaboys who only know video games from their mamma's basements?

Hathcock is legend.

Agreed. His name is legend, especially in the Marine Corps and among serious shooters.

But I have enjoyed your recent posts so please keep them coming.

quote:

Originally posted by UpTheIrons:
Hathcock is well known, Chuck Mawhinney is not.

I think he's known by people who "know" Hathcock, vs having just heard of him. Probably the second most well known up until recent times. lol

Proud to say I met the man, when he would appear at gunshows and sign his book.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
Forgotten? He might be one of the least forgotten Marines ever.

FPNI

quote:

Originally posted by UpTheIrons:
Hathcock is well known, Chuck Mawhinney is not.

Or Victor Birdsong.

quote:

Originally posted by Focused:
I have the book "Marine Sniper" by Charles Henderson published in 1986. Good read.

yup [ link ].

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by ammodotcom:
Carlos Hathcock is not a name that is widely known, even in military circles, but he is one of the most successful and prolific snipers in American military history.

False. He's a well known figure in the history of American fighting men.

Mythbusters did not one, but TWO stories on him. The first, they 'busted' the myth that he shot a Vietnamese sniper through the scope. They 'recreated' the situation, but with a modern multi-lens scope. The bullet would not penetrate the scope, so they declared this event never happened.

Predictably, the Marines and other history enthusiast went NUTS, (rightfully) declaring that this WAS NOT A MYTH, but a historical fact. They had so much kickback that they did another show, where they recreated the situation, but with a REAL WWII-era Soviet scope (with, IIRC, only two lenses) of the type the NVA used in the war. This one was easily penetrated by a shot fired down the scope. They then 'corrected' themselves and declared it 'unbusted.'

Heck, Springfield Armory even made a special edition "White Feather" M14 rifle at some point.

So, good article, but Carlos Hathcock IS NOT a 'forgotten' figure, nor is his history.

Just so I understand, they declared the myth busted by recreating it with equipment that didn't exist at the time? Bit of a glaring oversight from some guys who seemed to know pretty well what they were doing.

Long after his retirement Carlos came to SWAT Roundup in Orlando for years to advise and conduct sniper training for SWAT snipers. My team attended every year and I had the great honor of meeting and talking with him several times. He was a rock star there. He was such a personable and gentle fellow that you would never guess at his combat history. MS took hold of him and it was sad to see his condition deteriorate over time. As far as him being known in military circles, I have his book on my bookshelf. When my son in law, a marine, saw the autographed book, he said, "Oh my God, you met Carlos Hathcock"! His name is still spoken with reverence where snipers gather.

quote:

Originally posted by ammodotcom:

Just so I understand, they declared the myth busted by recreating it with equipment that didn't exist at the time? Bit of a glaring oversight from some guys who seemed to know pretty well what they were doing.

Yes, that is correct. They made at least three huge mistakes in that episode.

1. Calling an actual, historical fact a "Myth" to be 'busted' or 'confirmed.' This REALLY p*ssed off the Marines and other history enthusiasts.
2. Using grossly flawed methodology (using a modern rifle scope).
3. Declaring an honored war veteran/hero's story to be a 'busted' 'myth' (it was NEITHER).



Another glaring case of bad methodology was when they showed the clip from American Graffiti, where the kids chained the rear axel of a police car to a light post. When the cop car tore off, it yanked the entire rear axel with both wheels out from under the car.

To test this 'myth,' they used something like a 1990s Ford Taurus. Of course, the REAL movie had like a 1959 Ford or something. Since they could not replicate the scene with a modern car, they declared the myth 'busted.' Never mind that the rear axel of a 1959 Ford and a 1990 Ford are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

Oh, another one was the 'myth' about a ship sinking and the suction dragging people down into the depths (such as with the Titanic sinking). To test this, they no-kidding sank a 26' fiberglass cabin cruiser and tried to measure the suction (there was none). It is STUPID to assume you could scale up a 26' boat weighing no more than 1000 lbs to an 800+ foot long ocean liner. I think they 'busted' this 'myth,' too, even though there are hundreds (if not thousands) of recorded first-hand accounts of people being dragged down by large ships sinking.

It was an entertaining show, but some episodes were very stupid. These are just some of the instances that I personally witnessed and recall.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
It was an entertaining show, but some episodes were very stupid. These are just some of the instances that I personally witnessed and recall.

Content filling.

My nephew is a producer on Deadliest Catch, for every 'good idea' or well-done item that reaches the screen, there's a handful of other topics or, scenes that are merely there to fill air time with some drama. Set-up arguments, fake confrontations, scenarios that are taken out of context; the activities are real and the reactions are mostly-real (drug usage helps) but, the scenarios and situations are largely set-up.

I read the book White Feather, very good read. Iirc it was an unauthorized biography, but the content seemed fine. The story about him shooting the enemy sniper through his scope via the light glint coming off the front lens, and the account of hismulti-day crawl into a field to take out an enemy General, with enemy soldiers searching only yards away from his position while ants were stinging his balls is riveting to say the least. Incredible bravery and skills. I had an opportunity to buy one of his books he personally signed right around the time of his passing, and I could kick myself for not buying it. But I was raising a young family at the time and wasn't rolling in much disposable cash. What a man, and a United States Marine, one of the best examples of a great American.