RIP Charlie Hustle.

Baseball and the Hall of Fame would never allow Rose in, especially if he admitted betting while a player. Look how Shoeless Joe Jackson was treated and banned.

RIP Charlie Hustle. Hopefully whatever demons that you carried with you have by now been vanquished.

Based solely on his performance on the field alone, Peter Edward Rose, Sr. certainly deserves to be in the Hall. But betting on your own team while acting as player/manager of the Reds is blatantly inexcusable, even if to outsiders looking in he was "only" betting on them winning.

Upon discovery during baseball's investigation was that there was a clear and evident pattern to how Rose bet; he only chose games to bet on when certain starting pitchers were on the mound and/or when his team was facing opposing pitchers that he thought his guys' bats could take advantage of. He knew the matchups and that dictated when he would bet. That itself told his bookie(s?) and any of their criminal cohorts when they should bet for the Reds to win, and also when to bet against Rose's team winning as well, effectively using Rose's own more intimate knowledge of players and teams around the league to their own advantage. Insider information indeed. And an obvious breakdown of the imaginary 'wall' separating the game itself from nefarious and even criminal activity even to the point of complicity however unintended, as sports betting back in the 1980s wasn't nearly as legal and socially accepted as it is today.

Rose also didn't do himself any favors by denying and outright lying about his betting activity for years. He very sadly put himself into this penalty box all by himself.

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:

Based solely on his performance on the field alone, Peter Edward Rose, Sr. certainly deserves to be in the Hall. But betting on your own team while acting as player/manager of the Reds is blatantly inexcusable, even if to outsiders looking in he was "only" betting on them winning.

That’s interesting given that during any major “team” sports game today, there are betting app ads on almost every single commercial break. People talking this and that betting, it’s rather ironic. They are using celebrities, sportscasters, athletes, the kitchen sink is being flung in the air. Hey sign up on the app today and we’ll give you $X amount to get you started. Cool, I guess you mail the crack cocaine to the house?

This is why most of us have said fuck these major sports leagues. The hypocrisy is boundless. My favorite is when some asshole billionaire wants to build a new fancy stadium. Instead, they use taxpayer money to build it but never give the taxpayers who loaned him, her, the money, a dime in profits. What a scam. Either way, this man passed, we should all let it go, myself included.

Watched he and Johnny Bench play on the Reds. Legend I’m more ways then one but I miss watching him play the game.

One of my brothers had dinner with Pete a couple of years back. Pete answered every baseball question. My brother asked him who was the toughest pitcher to hit against. Immediately, he said Sandy Koufax.

quote:

Originally posted by 10X-Shooter:
Watched he and Johnny Bench play on the Reds. Legend I’m more ways then one but I miss watching him play the game.

Who can ever forget them playing in the 1975 World Series against the Red Sox. Game 6 was a fingernail biter. And, game 7 the Reds came from behind to win on a hit by Joe Morgan. Game six is considered by many to be the best Series game ever played.

He was definitely a force to be reckoned with; I don't even think this would be allowed today:

Anyone know the odds on Rose getting into the HoF?

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Anyone know the odds on Rose getting into the HoF?

100%

This story goes way back; it was the early ‘70s and I was watching The Game of the Week. The Reds and the Dodgers. Tommy Lasorda wasn’t yet the manager of the Dodgers, he was 3rd base coach. Sparky Anderson managed the Reds. NBC put mics on Anderson and Lasorda (I guess Alston didn’t want to wear one).

The Dodgers were at bat and Pete Rose was playing 3rd. The batter wasn’t in the box yet and NBC turned on Lasorda’s mic. “Hey, Pete!” Lasorda calls out. Rose gives a little sideways glance toward Lasorda.

“The Dodgers had a vote to pick the best lookin’ player on the Cincinnati ball club before the game,” says Lasorda. “You came in second,” he says. Rose glances over again.

“Yeah, the rest of the team all tied for first!” Rose gives a little half-smile and drops down into his ready crouch.

Later, they had to stop turning on Anderson’s mic, when the Dodger pitcher knocked Tony Perez down, Anderson said, “Good! That’ll make that son-of-a-bitch mad!”

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Anyone know the odds on Rose getting into the HoF?

100%

Yep, banned for life.

If admission to the HOF is based on wearing virgin white, a lot of people that are there would be kicked out if we retroactively applied a morals clause for membership. That list would be long.

His stats don't lie and baseball friends can quote the numbers. No baseball fan excludes Rose in conversations about records and the ones he holds. It's only MLB that's pretending otherwise.

They admit he's a great player, did a lot for the game and all that but he holds records that are worthy of HOF entry.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironmike57:
One of my brothers had dinner with Pete a couple of years back. Pete answered every baseball question. My brother asked him who was the toughest pitcher to hit against. Immediately, he said Sandy Koufax.

Just read an interesting story about that. Koufax was a nightmare to hit against, even for the Hit King. Pete said his goal was to bat his weight against Koufax: .202. Of course, his average against any other pitcher was considerably higher. His final average against Koufax: .176.

One of the problems not mentioned is the tie in with gambling and organized crime. Sports books were not in vogue and you made wagers with a bookie who typically had organized crime connections.

He was a great, exceptional player, no doubt.
Is it fair he was never allowed into the HOF?

Here's a well researched article with lots of first hand accounts of the events that led to him being banished.

Read and decide for yourself.

https://www.justthefacts.media...rue&utm_medium=email

I grew up In Cincinnati. I was a little shy of 3 years old when we moved there in 1975. Growing up in Cincinnati, you root for the Reds. It’s ingrained in you and that is just how it is. And then you most likely also play baseball yourself. Both of those applied to me.

My parents did not have much money, but they made sure to take me to a baseball game or two each year at Riverfront Stadium. To this day I can still recall the drive downtown, the parking lot where we parked, the sidewalk, the steps up to the stadium level, the sheer anticipation of it all. And every time I recall those things I feel just like a kid again.

In late spring or early summer of 1985, I was 12 years old. My parents came to me and said, “It looks like Pete will break the all time hit record this year. Pick two games and we will buy the tickets.” Keep in mind this was back in the day that when a player would break a record the team would likely sit him on the road so that he could break the record at home. I did the math on where Pete was, averaged the amount of hits he should attain and guessed he would get to the number on a road trip. I told my parents to buy the tickets for the first two games back from that road trip. And on the second game back off that road trip hit 4,192 fell into the outfield. The electricity inside that stadium is like nothing I had ever felt before or have ever felt since.

I got to meet Pete in Las Vegas back in 2015. I sat down with him in Mandalay Bay and he signed a jersey and bat for me.



RIP Pete, and thanks for the memories.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
This story goes way back; it was the early ‘70s ... Sparky Anderson managed the Reds.

Another way back story. I can't recall if I saw this or heard about it later.

An MLB umpire was being interviewed and kept referring to Sparky Anderson by his given first name 'George'. Finally, the interviewer asks "Why do you call him 'George' and not 'Sparky' like everyone else?" The umpire replies "I refuse to call a full grown man 'Sparky'!"

They made an example out of him at a time when there was no legal sports betting outside of Las Vegas, and the old timers still remembered the Black Sox scandal.

Pete always maintained that he never bet against his team. Given his records, it's highly unlikely he ever did anything to negatively affect his performance or his team's, as a player or a manager.

At this point, let him in to the HoF. The fans deserve it, even if you think he didn't during his lifetime.

holdem, thanks for that personal story! He was a helluva player! This coming from a big Carl Yastrzemski fan.

So………he was banned for life.
Does he get in now?