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The Huge Tax Bills That Came Out of Nowhere at Vanguard A change that benefited big clients left little ones holding the bag Login/Join 
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted March 27, 2022 09:41 PMHide Post
And now the expected class action lawsuit has been filed:

https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2...date-fund-tax-bills/

quote:
Vanguard is embroiled in a class-action lawsuit over a selloff that investors likened to an “elephant stampede” from its target date funds that left retail investors to take a huge capital gains tax hit.

As the Wall Street Journal reported in January, the selloff involved multimillion-dollar corporate retirement plans getting “out of the standard target funds and into the Institutional equivalents.”

According to the class-action lawsuit, filed Monday in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, in December 2020, “to cater to retirement plans, Vanguard intentionally caused an unprecedented sell-off from its Retail Funds.”

The suit was filed by retail investors Valerie M. Verduce, Catherine Day and Anthony Pollock, on behalf of the class.

Normally, the lawsuit states, “target date funds don’t sell many assets, so capital gains distributions are minimal. But beginning in December of 2020, Vanguard itself caused an ‘elephant stampede’ sell off” from its retail target date funds.

Specifically, the Journal reported, in the months that followed the December 2020 decision, “plans with $5M-$100M sold their Retail Fund shares and moved to the Institutional Funds. The Retail Funds were forced to sell assets to raise cash to redeem the shares.”

Vanguard chose to open its Institutional Funds (which hold the same assets as the Retail Funds) “to all retirement plans with at least $5M, so that retirement plans invested in the Retail Funds could sell their shares and move over to cheaper, but otherwise identical, Institutional Funds,” the lawsuit states.

This is what happened:

“To raise cash to redeem so many shares, the Retail Funds were forced to sell off as much as 15% of their assets (or even more),” the lawsuit continues. “When these assets were sold, the Retail Funds recognized capital gains on the assets. The resulting capital gains distributions to investors were unprecedented (40 times previous levels).”

This move didn’t hurt retirement plans, but it left taxable investors “holding the tax bag,” the lawsuit says.

anguard, the suit states, “had other, readily-available ways to lower costs for retirement plans without hurting its taxable investors. But it either did not even consider these options, or did not care about hurting its smaller, taxable investors. This was a gross violation of Vanguard’s fiduciary duties (among other legal duties).”

Vanguard, the lawsuit states, “competes to get the most assets under management, while maintaining low fees.”

As one of the largest investment companies in the world, with over $8 trillion under management, and “the largest mutual fund provider,” it is “engaged in an ongoing ‘price war’ with its competitors,” the lawsuit continues.

Vanguard is also the largest TDF manager in the industry and the No. 1 “recipient of cash flowing into target-date funds,” the lawsuit continues.

Because most of the money in Vanguard’s target date funds “comes from company and institutional retirement plans,” Vanguard “is therefore incentivized to keep the managers of its retirement plans happy,” according to the complaint.

Before December 2020, “only retirement plans with $100M or more could access the Institutional Funds. Plans with under $100M were limited to the Retail Funds, with higher fees. Naturally, plans with under $100M wanted the lower fees available to the Institutional Fund investors,” the lawsuit says.

Vanguard did not respond to a request for comment by press time.
 
Posts: 33890 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted March 28, 2022 08:32 AMHide Post
Thanks for posting that.
 
Posts: 17942 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 229DAK
posted November 16, 2022 08:20 PMHide Post
If you are looking for Vanguard preliminary distributions for 2022, they are here.

"The official Vanguard Preliminary capital gains estimates are to be published November 15, 2022. The official Vanguard Final estimated year-end distributions are to be published December 9, 2022."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 229DAK, November 17, 2022 02:24 PM


_________________________________________________________________________
“A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.”
-- Mark Twain, 1902
 
Posts: 9593 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
posted November 16, 2022 08:40 PMHide Post
The whole premise of these target/lifestyle type Omni-funds is to reallocate its fund holdings as time marches on. If you put after tax money in one of these things then you’re just asking for capital gains taxation if they can’t reallocate/rebalance with cash.

Who would have thunk? The do it yourselfer did it to himself.


0:01
 
Posts: 4350 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted November 16, 2022 08:54 PMHide Post
^^ Read the thread. It was 57.5x more than normal, and had nothing to do with asset allocation changing.



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 24333 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
posted November 16, 2022 09:53 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
^^ Read the thread. It was 57.5x more than normal, and had nothing to do with asset allocation changing.


I did read it. And I do understand it. Do you ?


0:01
 
Posts: 4350 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 229DAK
posted December 12, 2022 06:06 PMHide Post
Vanguard's final estimated year-end distributions can be found here.


_________________________________________________________________________
“A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.”
-- Mark Twain, 1902
 
Posts: 9593 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted December 12, 2022 06:13 PMHide Post
^^^^^^^
Thanks
 
Posts: 17942 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted December 12, 2022 07:36 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 229DAK:
Vanguard's final estimated year-end distributions can be found here.


And as expected, they're back to a few cents per share in Long Term Capital Gains for the various Target Date funds (with some having zero), compared to as much as $7.56 per share in last year's clusterfuck.


But again: It's only an issue if you're holding these in a taxable account. And if you're doing that, you're using these wrong.
 
Posts: 33890 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted January 28, 2025 09:19 AMHide Post
This is an older thread

Update: For anybody that held these Target date funds in an after tax account the class action lawsuit has a settlement hearing coming up in ~6 weeks. More importantly, the claims filing deadline is February 11, 2025.

Right before Christmas, I received an e-mail from the law firm for the class action. They have a website set-up for electronically filing the claim. In the e-mail, I received an ID number and PIN which was good news as it meant they already had all of my contact info and my 1099 so filing the claim was easy.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tatortodd, February 06, 2025 05:09 PM



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 24333 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Optimistic Cynic
Picture of architect
posted January 28, 2025 10:57 AMHide Post
Interesting discussion. There's no substitute to being an involved and informed investor. Do your homework, and you won't get bitten (or not as much anyway) by unexpected events.

One thing that seems to be missing in this discussion is the idea that paying capital gains taxes is BS on the face of it. You are already paying taxes on the money you invest, and the companies you own a part of are paying taxes on their earnings. If they manage to keep ahead of the tax man, and actually retain earnings, you have to pay again on their increased value. We are taxing ourselves into poverty! Not to mention the detrimental effects of a Govt. with too much money, trying desperately to find ways to spend it that give the illusion that they need even more!

I feel very lucky to be living in a time of such great prosperity! Unfortunately, Govt. has littte to nothing to do with it!
 
Posts: 7123 | Location: NoVA | Registered: July 22, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 229DAK
posted February 06, 2025 10:40 AMHide Post
Short video update:

Link


_________________________________________________________________________
“A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.”
-- Mark Twain, 1902
 
Posts: 9593 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted February 06, 2025 10:48 AMHide Post
 
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Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted February 06, 2025 05:13 PMHide Post
Para - updated my 1/28 post

229DAK - thanks for the link on Vanguard's $106M SEC fine



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 24333 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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