quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
This is NOT a good article to link to. The Long Gun Registry does not exist and there are NO License requirements to purchase either a Pistol or Long Gun.

Poorly-written article. What they no doubt mean is a permit to purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Note there used to be a need for a Pistol Purchase Permit but that was done away with in the mid 2000 teens.

If you have a Michigan CPL. Otherwise a pistol purchase permit is still required. Now it's required for a long gun purchase, too.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Universal Background checks have been in place for a rather long time.

Only for handguns. Prior to Feb. 13, 2024 there was no requirement for private sales of long guns. Now there is.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Long Gun Registry. That was worrisome. While I will admit my google skills are poor but I could not find a thing about a Long Gun Registry.

I don't know about a "long gun registry," but one is now obliged to register long guns acquired after Feb. 13, 2024, just as they were handguns since ???.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
MI seems to have two separate laws regarding non-residents possessing firearms in MI. One of them says ...

Ah, ok. Now you're getting into the minutia regarding "long guns" vs. "handguns" vs. SBRs.

I haven't been tracking it, but, last I knew SBRs were still absolutely prohibited in Michigan. That may have changed.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Now if, as the article implies, MI merely replaced pistol with firearm wherever it applied, then I can’t help but wonder how that applies to possession of long guns in MI for non-residents. Will they have to be licensed by their state to carry long guns?

Michigan is an open carry state. You do not have to be licensed to own or open-carry a handgun in the state of Michigan. You do have to be licensed to carry a pistol (by which they mean handgun) concealed in Michigan. This license does not grant one the right to carry a long gun or any other weapon concealed. The license is a Concealed Pistol License (CPL).

There was never any license required to own or open-carry a long gun in the state of Michigan and there still isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I’m only concerned about possession and that the transportation laws haven’t changed has no bearing on possession.

The possession and transportation laws have not changed.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The punitive portion of the storage laws seem only to apply if a minor has your firearm.

No. If a minor has, or can reasonably be expected to have, access to your firearm(s).

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Michigan is an open carry state. You do not have to be licensed to own or open-carry a handgun in the state of Michigan.

While that’s true for you as a resident, it is not true for me as a non-resident as I explained in my post.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
You do have to be licensed to carry a pistol (by which they mean handgun) in Michigan.

No, you have to be licensed to carry a concealed pistol. You pointed out the open carry bit above.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
This license does not grant one the right to carry a long gun or any other weapon concealed.

There was never any license required to own or open-carry a long gun in the state of Michigan and there still isn't.

Your license in MI as a MI resident has nothing to do my license in FL as a Florida resident. It’s my license in FL that MI will look at to determine the my legal ability to possess a pistol in MI. It may now also be my license that determines if I can possess long guns in MI. I explained yhat as well.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
The possession and transportation laws have not changed.

Again, for you as far as possession goes, but not necessarily for me. I never mentioned a concern about transportation.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The punitive portion of the storage laws seem only to apply if a minor has your firearm.

No. If a minor has, or can reasonably be expected to have, access to your firearm(s).

No. There are no punishments for that. Here’s the list of punishments:

“
If a child does get access to a gun, there are varying punishments for the owner depending on the outcome:

If the minor possesses or exhibits the firearm in a public place or possesses or exhibits the firearm in the presence of another person in a careless, reckless or threatening manner: a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for up to 93 days or a fine of up to $500, or both.

If the minor discharges the firearm and injures themselves or another individual: a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to five years or a fine of up to $5,000, or both.
If the minor discharges the firearm and inflicts serious impairment of a body function on themselves or another individual: a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to 10 years or a fine of up to $7,500, or both.

If the minor discharges the firearm and inflicts death on themselves or another individual: a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to 15 years or a fine of up to $10,000, or both.“ Link

I think my point about the MI laws being convoluted has been proven true.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The punitive portion of the storage laws seem only to apply if a minor has your firearm.

No. If a minor has, or can reasonably be expected to have, access to your firearm(s).

No. There are no punishments for that. Here’s the list of punishments:

You did write "punitive," so, yes, you're correct. But you're splitting hairs. The law, as passed, does state:

quote:

[Section 15 (MCL 28.4350] Sec. 9. (1) An individual who stores or leaves a firearm unattended on premises under the individual’s control, and who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is, or is likely to be, present on the premises, shall do 1 or more of the following:

(a) Store the firearm in a locked box or container.

(b) Keep the firearm unloaded and lock the firearm with a locking device that is properly engaged to render the firearm inoperable by any individual other than the owner or an authorized user.

(2) An individual who enters onto the premises of another individual, stores or leaves a firearm unattended on those premises, and who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is, or is likely to be, present on the premises, shall do 1 or more of the following:

(a) Store the firearm in a locked box or container.

(b) Keep the firearm unloaded and lock the firearm with a locking device that is properly engaged to render the firearm inoperable by any individual other than the owner or an authorized user.

(c) Before entering onto the premises, do both of the following:

(i) In the individual’s motor vehicle, store the firearm in a locked box or container in that vehicle, or keep the firearm unloaded and lock the firearm with a locking device that is properly engaged to render the firearm inoperable by any individual other than the owner or an authorized user.

(ii) Lock the individual’s motor vehicle.

[Ref: Michigan Act No. 17, Public Acts of 2023]

True, there are penalties only if a minor accesses a firearm not stored in compliance with the law and engages in mischief with said firearm, but that's kind of like saying it's not a crime unless you're caught, is it not? The law says you must secure unattended firearms, unloaded, if a minor has access to, or can reasonably be expected to have access to, them. The language in the law is unambiguous.

That is what I read, understood, and as I said before “That doesn’t change anything for me.” My storage plan exceeds the new MI legal requirements.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

Poorly-written article. What they no doubt mean is a permit to purchase.

quote:
Originally posted by Scooter123:
Note there used to be a need for a Pistol Purchase Permit but that was done away with in the mid 2000 teens.

If you have a Michigan CPL. Otherwise a pistol purchase permit is still required. Now it's required for a long gun purchase, too.

About 1 year ago I purchased a Sig P365 at Cabela's and there was no mention of my CPL or a Purchase Permit at any time leading up to paying the money for the purchase. I also quite distinctly remember seeing the announcement on Channel 7 News around 2015 that the Pistol Purchase Permit requirement had been dropped because it was determined to be a giant waste of money. I will also note that the exemption for the NCIS background check was voided the day that Michigan made use of Marijuana legal. Apparently because Michigan joined all the other Pothead states that the ATF would not allow any exemptions for a CPL, everyone had to do the NCIS routine. BTW, I do NOT approve of or in any way support the use of Pot. Because at some point stoned drivers will end up producing more murders with murderous driving than the total for gun related deaths.

To be blunt, I do not think that there are ANY purchase permits required in Michigan under this new Law or the old Law. If I am wrong could someone please post a link to these new laws on the State of Michigan web site.

Looking at the legislature record for 2023 and the Public Acts that were passed This is the whole shebang.

Public Act 14, Senate Bill 82 Provides a Sale and Use Tax exemption for Safe Storage items thru 12-31-2024. If you
purchase a Gun Safe this bill makes it tax free. Provides funding for school funds
effected by the loss of tax revenue due to the exemption

Public Act 15, Senate Bill 81. Provides some fees and funding and defines means of Safe Storage.

Public Act 16, Senate Bill 80. Revises the classes for various Criminal Acts and Penalties.

Public Act 17, Senate Bill 79. This is the Safe Storage Act for those who have minors in their homes. Note didn't
dig into the definition of a Minor but take a conservative approach this would be
any individual under 21 years of age.

Public Act 22, House Bill 4143. Revises the classes for various Criminal Acts and Penalties.

Public Act 37, House Bill 4146. This is a throw everything at it Bill. I'm no Lawyer but I believe that it MAY
provide an amendment that Extends the old Pistol Sales Record as a License to
include Long Guns. There is a whole list of what will eliminate qualification for a
Concealed Pistol License. It runs to 13 pages but boil it down and every gun you
purchase will require a trip to the local PD or Sheriff. An inconvenience but one
one we have been dealing with for a long time. Note this may be why some are
interpreting this as a Purchase Permit. Technically it's a firearm "registration".

Public Act 103. School and higher education funding amendments.

Public Act 119 An appropriations Bill. If you want to know how your money is spent here is about 390 pages for
part of that spending.

Public Act 200 A Sentencing Guideline.

Public Act 272 A Sentencing Guideline.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
About 1 year ago I purchased a Sig P365 at Cabela's and there was no mention of my CPL or a Purchase Permit at any time leading up to paying the money for the purchase.

It would appear you are correct:

quote:

Firearms - Purchase Permits & Registration

Dealer Sales

Residents wishing to purchases pistols from licensed dealers in Michigan are no longer required to obtain a permit to purchases from their local law enforcement agency.

...

Private Party Sales

To purchase a pistol from a private party, you will need to obtain a Permit to Purchase.

...

CPL Sales

Residents who hold a valid Concealed Pistol License, commonly referred to as a CPL or CCW, can purchase a pistol at any licensed dealer without a background check once they show their CPL. CPL holders who wish to purchase a pistol from a private party may obtain the necessary form at any time from the Public Safety Department. ...

Ref: Firearms - Purchase Permits & Registration, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan

The "necessary form," above, I believe refers to the RI-060 form, which is the registration form.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
I also quite distinctly remember seeing the announcement on Channel 7 News around 2015 that the Pistol Purchase Permit requirement had been dropped because it was determined to be a giant waste of money.

Just called one of my LGS'. He doesn't recall how far back it was. "I don't know. A long time," was his response.

I suppose this entirely escaped my attention because I've had a CPL just about ever since Michigan "shall-issue" became the law.

Thanks for the correction.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

I suppose this entirely escaped my attention because I've had a CPL just about ever since Michigan "shall-issue" became the law.

Thanks for the correction.

I had to do a double take when I read that as well. I've had my CPL for close to 20 years and I haven't bought a gun retail in a long while.