Freaking crazy. Here's the local news story. Said there were 2 criminals, one (Edge) walked into the restaurant and the other (Calderon) remained in the SUV with the kidnapping victim. Interesting that in all the shootout, Edge didn't run off but remained inside until the cops came in and arrested him.

Graphic new photos, video shows deadly shootout between kidnapping suspect, Scottsdale police

Published: Dec. 18, 2023 at 4:56 PM CST | Updated: 5 hours ago

MESA, AZ (3TV/CBS 5) — The Scottsdale Police Department released new graphic photos and video of a deadly shooting involving a kidnapping suspect outside a restaurant in Mesa last month.

It happened on Nov. 13 at the Moreno’s Mexican Grill parking lot at the northwest corner of Horne and Broadway Road. Police said two men, 43-year-old Wyatt Edge and 45-year-old Rene Calderon, were inside the SUV. Edge walked into the restaurant. Surveillance video shows undercover detectives in three unmarked SUVs drove into the parking lot and boxed Calderon in the parking lot while a fourth detective drove over the sidewalk and stopped in front of the SUV. That’s when police said Calderon fired his fully automatic gun at detectives before they could get out of their SUVs.

The first detective took heavy gunfire through his windshield, and his body-camera video shows where the rounds hit. Other rounds hit the second and third detectives’ SUVs. The first detective got out of his SUV through the passenger’s door and ran around vehicles to avoid the crossfire. “Watch out! Watch out!” a detective is heard on the first detective’s body camera. “Get back!”

Body-camera video from the second detective shows him getting shot at after getting out of his SUV. He can see the suspect in the distance and uses his rifle to return fire. He then switches to his handgun and fires again. “Get the victim!” the second detective said in the video. “On the passenger’s side!”

The first detective runs around an SUV and reloads his rifle. “How’s our victim?” a detective asks. “Where’s our victim?” The video shows confusion on where the victim is, as Calderon is in the backseat shooting at detectives, investigators said. “Where’s the victim!? Watch our 360!” said a detective. “Where is the victim?” said another detective. “Somebody said they have him,” replied another detective.

The video shows the second detective on top of the hood of the first detective’s SUV, pointing his gun into the suspect’s shot-out SUV rear window. He sees Calderon still has a gun pointing toward detectives. “If he (expective) moves, he’s getting it again. Don’t move!” the second detective said. “He’s got a (ballistic) vest on. Don’t move!” “Copy, he’s moving,” said another detective. Calderon is reportedly still seen moving, and the first detective fired his gun a few more times.

In the third detective’s body-camera video, he is seen getting shot at and returning fire. After the shootout, he says he’s injured. “Hey, my ear’s bleeding. I don’t know if I took a round or not,” he said. That detective was taken to the hospital but was released the same day.

What the other detectives didn’t see was the fourth detective, who boxed in the suspect from the front, spotting the kidnapping victim running from the SUV during the gun battle and hiding behind a parked car. “I got victim!” he said three times. “I got the victim!” The victim is on the ground. “Thank you guys, thank you so much,” he said in the video from the fourth detective’s body camera. “Oh my God, thank you man.”

Video from the second detective shows the bullet-ridden ballistic vest Calderon was wearing, two magazines taped together, another handgun and a rifle was found on the floorboard. The second detective said that Calderon was still alive when he got to him inside the SUV. “The man is still breathing,” he said. “Let’s get some medics and ... get me a trauma kit real quick.” However, Calderon died at the scene.

The other detectives ran to the restaurant and arrested Edge. He was a former marine who was deployed to Kuwait and Iraq in the early 2000s. His attorney claimed he came from Texas to help out a friend but didn’t know the plan involved kidnapping.

Bad guy had a UMP40 or UMP45 it looks like. You don't see those too much.

Calls to mind the Platt / Matix shootout with the FBI in Miami some time back.

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However, Calderon died at the scene.

Good outcome.

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Originally posted by BlackTalonJHP:
Bad guy had a UMP40 or UMP45 it looks like. You don't see those too much.

Yep. It's a UMP45 (you can tell by the bolt markings at ~8:45). Definitely not something you see often.

Detectives 1 & 2 both had malfunctions. #2 did an immediate action drill in nothing flat which either didn't clear it or he got a second one, and that's when he went to his handgun and got shots on the guy. #1 stripped the mag and got his gun back into action. That... isn't real confidence inspiring in the MCX. Two, possibly three malfunctions between two guns in the same shooting? Holy shit. I wonder if they're looking at a new duty rifle after that. Anyone know what generation of MCX those were?

Man, they lit that dude up good. Probably get free food for life at Moreno's, which by the way, is pretty good if any of you are ever in town. Interesting that this was Scottsdale PD but took place in Mesa. They must've been watching this guy and waiting for the right moment for some time. Guarantee that UMP came across the border from Mexico.

Was the malfunction when the Detective 2 transitioned to his sidearm? I think you can hear a "click" when he attempts to fire his rifle. It's at 4:26.

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Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
"Fully automatic" weapon? That's not what I heard in the video.

It's a full auto SMG, but he didn't have it on full auto. In the view of the bad guy's weapon at ~8.42, you can see that it's on the 2 round burst setting. He likely just instinctively swiped straight downward on his 4 position 0-1-2-D selector before opening fire, whereas full auto on that trigger group requires a more deliberate down and then forward selector movement.

Edited- watched it again on a larger screen and and answered my own question.

Also possible it was a bad batch of mags. Both appeared to be using the same type.

It sounded like the one rifle either dropped the hammer on an empty chamber or a dud round.

It would be interesting to hear what the armorer finds.

I'm really curious how one gets a hold of a genuine UMP and not a conversion of a semi auto. Would have had to be stolen from a class 3 or .gov?

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Originally posted by Andyb:
I'm really curious how one gets a hold of a genuine UMP and not a conversion of a semi auto. Would have had to be stolen from a class 3 or .gov?

Likely acquired from the Mexican military. They use a lot of HK guns, including the UMP45.

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:

Likely acquired from the Mexican military. They use a lot of HK guns, including the UMP45.

Or Cartel?, Kidnapping maybe some kind of drug dealer/hit, a real live Sicario scene....

That's what I was saying. Part of/connected to a cartel or other criminal organization that acquired some UMPs (through theft or bribery) from the Mexican military.

Cartels do a lot of kidnapping. Could be an express kidnapping, pay $1,800 or so and you kid is let free. Now available north of the border, Senor.

The malfunctions may be (guessing, of course) a storage and lubrication / maintenance issue. The guns may been stored in the cars for long periods of time without attention to taking good care of them. If I was rifle qualified, I would want to carry my own rifle to ensure its properly cared for. Someone may know more about the issues in the future.

Lots of discussion on this incident elsewhere, to include enhanced pics suggesting the rifles were chambered in 300 Blackout and the ammo being used was heavy subs.

In my experience, heavy bullets (180 gr and up) don’t always feed well from 5.56 mags, particularly the first round unless carefully oriented in the mag.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out!

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Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:
...enhanced pics suggesting the rifles were chambered in 300 Blackout and the ammo being used was heavy subs.

Yeah, what did Eugene Stoner know? Not much, huh? Everybody's gotta get so fancy these days- so fancy that Stoner's reliable design starts to falter.

YooperSigs' suggestion that inadequate lubrication of rifles sitting unused in the trunk of a police car might also be a factor, but given that these malfunctions occurred with more than one rifle, the oddball chambering and poor choice of the specific cartridge being used provides a better explanation.

Reliability is paramount in firearms, above all else. It's gotta go bang. If it doesn't, nothing else matters; not "sophisticated" calibers, nor fancy rifles- nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:
Lots of discussion on this incident elsewhere, to include enhanced pics suggesting the rifles were chambered in 300 Blackout and the ammo being used was heavy subs.

Very interesting indeed if true.

The video above claims that there are bullets imbedded in the BG’s armor. I thought that was strange if, as I assumed, that the officers’ rifles were chambered for 223/5.56, but perhaps not so strange if they were shooting subsonic 300 Blackout ammunition. I tried to find some online tests of subsonic 300 BLK against soft armor without very much success. One showed a subsonic FMJ load perforating a vest in a somewhat marginally valid test, but the vest was rated at level II, not the far more common IIIA for soft armor.

In the same test the vest did stop a subsonic shot with a fragmenting bullet. In evaluating the ability of an FMJ load to perforate soft armor we must remember that with bullets of certain designs and materials, even the 9mm Parabellum is capable of perforating soft armor.
And lest someone offer the defense of the cartridge with, “Yeah, but it did penetrate the armor,” keep in mind as well that simply punching a nonexpanding .30 caliber hole through the armor and what’s behind it isn’t the only criterion we should be looking at in selecting a defensive load.

I don’t know if I’ll get around to conducting a test of my own, but if the information becomes well known that both the terminal ballistic and functioning failures were with subsonic 300 Blackout loads, perhaps it will start building a (well-deserved) coffin for that ammunition.