Just watched a movie (Dakota - Dutch flick) in which a man soloed a DC3 from Suriname to Holland.

I'm willing to believe that's possible if you allow for the possibility of fueling in-flight from drums in the cargo area to a mysterious fitting under the floor.

Where my Bullshit Detector goes full retard is when he sets the autopilot, crawls in the back, sets an alarm for some fairly long period of time, and sacks out. Nobody in the cockpit.

I seriously doubt that the AP in a DC3 is capable of maintaining heading and altitude for several hours without attention. Even if that's possible, I can't imagine the navigation being worth a damn given winds aloft and any number of other variables.

Not to mention having the balls to sleep in the back of an unpiloted DC3...

It’s the movies! Anything goes!

Seriously, most of us who are pilots have heard of the fellow who lived in Colorado, worked in Kansas City. He flew in Monday, returned home Friday afternoon. He would crawl in his Cessna, take off to cruise altitude, set power, autopilot and alarm clock to wake him up in time to descend and land, then go to sleep. He did this for months.

One Friday he went missing. They found him and his Cessna on the side of a mountain 100 miles west of his home airport. The winds aloft were out of the east that afternoon/evening, so he ran out of distance before he ran out of time.

Can it be done? Sure. It is smart? Nope.

I've known quite few guys that would nap in 2 man crewed airplanes. I never did that. I have seen too many things go wrong from inattention, let alone, go to sleep.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Where my Bullshit Detector goes full retard is when he sets the autopilot, crawls in the back, sets an alarm for some fairly long period of time, and sacks out. Nobody in the cockpit.

I seriously doubt that the AP in a DC3 is capable of maintaining heading and altitude for several hours without attention. Even if that's possible, I can't imagine the navigation being worth a damn given winds aloft and any number of other variables.

Modern autopilots are very capable of holding altitude accurately, and they can be coupled to any navigation system in the airplane, including GPS.

It's not at all unusual to engage the autopilot within a minute or so after takeoff and leave it on for an entire flight, programmed to climb to cruising altitude at a pre-determined rate of climb, capture the altitude, then fly the approach at the destination airport.

Of course, DC-3s were not originally equipped with autopilots that had that level of capability, but it's certainly possible, and probable, that more modern equipment was retro-fitted. The technology is not that difficult, but the paperwork might be daunting.

Sleeping, with nobody watching for traffic? That's a scary thought.

I vaguely remember something about refueling from barrels in the book "Island In The Sky", but I haven't read it in over 40 years. It may be that crossing the Atlantic during WWII it was done, to avoid stops during winter flights, and I think there was access to the tanks from inside the cabin someplace. I sure don't remember anything obvious in the C-47 I flew once in Minnesota.

I just looked up the movie and if it were set in modern times, I might believe it. Modern navigation systems will track a line over the ground no problem, regardless of the wind. If a high end Otto Pilot system were installed, I might believe it as well since the fuel trick is not far fetched at all and is used regularly will light aircraft doing long overwater routes. The pilot sleeping thing, well, lets just say the value of a "combat nap" even in the cockpit of a two pilot airliner is proven and recognized by the FAA. Just make sure one set of eyes is open.

However...that movie was done in 1974, so color me very skeptical. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely to end in disaster? You betcha'.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Just watched a movie (Dakota - Dutch flick) in which a man soloed a DC3 from Suriname to Holland.

I'm willing to believe that's possible if you allow for the possibility of fueling in-flight from drums in the cargo area to a mysterious fitting under the floor.

Where my Bullshit Detector goes full retard is when he sets the autopilot, crawls in the back, sets an alarm for some fairly long period of time, and sacks out. Nobody in the cockpit.

I seriously doubt that the AP in a DC3 is capable of maintaining heading and altitude for several hours without attention. Even if that's possible, I can't imagine the navigation being worth a damn given winds aloft and any number of other variables.

Not to mention having the balls to sleep in the back of an unpiloted DC3...

I have flown the DC3. It takes two pilots to raise the landing gear. It's certainly possible to rig additional fuel tanks...but the airplane needs to land to oil the engines as much as it does fuel; typically burns 3-6 gallons of oil per hour per engine. The DC-3 is loud, vibrates and can be drafty.

Leaving the cockpit in flight...it's common for one pilot to leave, but usually not in a single pilot cockpit. It's been done. When Lawrence Sperry invented and demonstrated the first autopilot in a Curtis C2 Biplane in 1914, he made several passes in front of a crowd. On the first pass he held his hands over his head, but the crowd did not believe the aircraft was operating without his control; he had a passenger. The passenger climbed onto the wing and stood outside the cockpit for the second pass. On the third pass, Sperry climbed onto the other wing and passed the review stand with no one in the cockpit.

We had a flight engineer that frequently fell asleep. One night, by agreement, everyone left the cockpit and stood just out of sight, and one brave soul hit the fire bell test (which will wake the dead). The FE came unglued, and very quickly realized he was alone in the cockpit, which rattled him. Cockpit humor.

I know a crewmember who left the cockpit on a flight to Afghanistan. He climbed into a vehicle being transported, and closed the door. He was unable to open the door, and the flight landed with only the captain at the controls.

The DC-3 hails from an era without GPS, without many navigational aids, and nothing autopilot could navigate by in many locations. One could possibly get aft and fall asleep...but with nowhere to go, an even better wing levelers and autopilot equipment of the day couldn't navigate one beacon to the next...so it wouldn't have gone very far or for very long.

The DC-3 that I was until very recently associated with had nothing resembling an autopilot.

Here is a European pilots video of the same question. I've been following and enjoying his videos. I don't know if the European regulation is different from American or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Otto Pilot:
I just looked up the movie and if it were set in modern times, I might believe it. Modern navigation systems will track a line over the ground no problem, regardless of the wind. If a high end Otto Pilot system were installed, I might believe it as well since the fuel trick is not far fetched at all and is used regularly will light aircraft doing long overwater routes. The pilot sleeping thing, well, lets just say the value of a "combat nap" even in the cockpit of a two pilot airliner is proven and recognized by the FAA. Just make sure one set of eyes is open.

However...that movie was done in 1974, so color me very skeptical. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely to end in disaster? You betcha'.

My point. I was more-or-less aware that MODERN AP is very capable.

Thanks to all for your input. As usual, this is a good place to learn new things.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
Here is a European pilots video of the same question. I've been following and enjoying his videos. I don't know if the European regulation is different from American or not.

Ive been watching this guy and Corporate Pilot Life.

Both have been very informative. Mentour 360 had a good video on the 737.

Movie magic, the same magic that let a Junkers Ju-52 fly from the UK to central Germany in Where Eagles Dare.