I figured why not ask the all knowing oracle of knowledge that is SigForum. Anyone have experience with chartering a private plane for travel? We're going to be traveling from Phoenix to Raleigh, NC and back this summer for my daughter to compete at Outdoor Nationals.

Our coach and his son just had a horrific experience traveling to Florida for Indoor Trials. Their bag was forcibly opened, a pair of binoculars and a pocket knife were stolen. Worse yet, someone cut the zip ties securing his son's bow, dry fired it and destroyed it.

Just wondering if it may be cost effective for 3 or 4 families to share a private charter rather than dealing with the nightmare of the TSA and airline baggage handlers.

3 or 4 families and luggage would take a pretty good sized plane which would be big $$

You're basically flying cross country too which means you need a plane with long legs.

Off the top of my head I'd say a 10 passenger sized plane with that much range would run you north of $20,000 to charter it round trip for that distance.

Can you put a firearm (or even just a starting pistol) into the case, declare it with the airline desk, and lock the case up according to TSA and Airline guidelines? Firearms get special handling, locked, and only you have a key.

dusty3030 has it right. I've looked. It's insanely expensive - especially for cross-country, which puts you on a bigger jet.

Just to give you a sample of what you're looking at, here's a link to a charter service's listings of empty legs. Empty leg being the "we have to move the plane where we need it, but nobody has chartered a flight for the right date/time, so it will be empty unless we can make some money by offering space at a deep discount"

You'll see that the discounted "empty leg" prices for cross-country are still in the $30K range. Since you'd need specific airports and dates, you can multiply that figure.

http://newflightcharters.com/one_way_jet_charters.htm

What about buying some quality cases (SKB, Pelican, etc.) and shipping the equipment? At the very least, it could be fully insured that way, which is more than you're going to get from the airlines.

-Rob

Fedex the equipment out ahead of you?

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Can you put a firearm (or even just a starting pistol) into the case, declare it with the airline desk, and lock the case up according to TSA and Airline guidelines? Firearms get special handling, locked, and only you have a key.

That is a good idea.

GF son recently flew to Kansas, via Southwest from PHX with a shotgun in hard case with keyed locks. He kept the key of course. Said there were no problems either way.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Can you put a firearm (or even just a starting pistol) into the case, declare it with the airline desk, and lock the case up according to TSA and Airline guidelines? Firearms get special handling, locked, and only you have a key.

Yes, I've got a Davis derringer especially for that purpose. Her double bow tournament case is a soft case approved for airline travel. We'll probably upgrade to a hard sided SKB. It sucks because her soft case is especially made for archery and can pack 2 bows, quiver, arrows, equipment, etc. into it. An SKB hard case isn't as versatile. We're also looking into shipping her bow and equipment in advance via FedEx, UPS, etc.

We've been lucky in that our tournament travel has always been somewhere that we could easily drive to in a day. Not so with Nationals in North Carolina this summer. Especially troublesome talking with those in the archery community is that equipment damage and theft is becoming more prevalent.

Fortunately the archery community is very generous. Archers show up for a tournament with damaged equipment or bag that was lost. Other archers are willing to lend back up bows and equipment so at least they can compete. But still a bow is a very personal thing tuned to the individual archer, not having your own is a disadvantage.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Fedex the equipment out ahead of you?

Or burn it in the parking lot and replace on arrival, still coming out ahead of a chartered flight.

Nothing about air travel can be regarded as cost effective.

Scheduled air service is subsidized to a certain extent, and according to Warren Buffett, has lost all the money invested since the Wright Brothers.

Charter service, where you pay full cost, is not cheap. There are many amusing advantages, scheduling, routing, comfort, but saving money isn’t one of them.

Like my instructor said when he asked me what makes an airplane fly. After listening to my babbling nonsense for as long as he could stand it, he said, “Nahh, it’s money. If you don’t have any, the plane won’t fly.”

Price is determined by the particular kind of jet you choose, and that will depend on the number of passengers you have and the distance for the trip. 10-12 passengers on a cross country flight translates to a pretty big aircraft. If you have more passengers than that, you are looking at a heavy jet like a G550. Best to check a charter operator for a quote, but I would think you are in the $7500 to $10k per hour range. Probably north of $50k for the roundtrip.

Unless your crew is smaller than we are thinking, I don't see how you get anywhere near $20k for a one way trip much less a round trip

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Can you put a firearm (or even just a starting pistol) into the case, declare it with the airline desk, and lock the case up according to TSA and Airline guidelines? Firearms get special handling, locked, and only you have a key.

Yes, I've got a Davis derringer especially for that purpose. Her double bow tournament case is a soft case approved for airline travel. We'll probably upgrade to a hard sided SKB. It sucks because her soft case is especially made for archery and can pack 2 bows, quiver, arrows, equipment, etc. into it. An SKB hard case isn't as versatile.

Buy an SKB/Pelican/Anvil/etc case big enough to hold the soft case... there are tons of different ones beyond regular gun cases, for music gear, scientific instruments, and so on. There are likely several, no matter their intended use, that are big enough and shaped correctly to facilitate holding her existing soft case stuffed full of gear.

If you need help looking, post the outside dimensions of her soft case while it's full...

Or, like Motorcycles and Fine Art and Restaurant Equipment and such are shipped, crate it yourself and send it like common freight. It's a little slow, but cheap and reliable.

quote:

Just wondering if it may be cost effective for 3 or 4 families to share a private charter rather than dealing with the nightmare of the TSA and airline baggage handlers.

I think the answer is "NO"...
A locking case sounds like your best bet.

Ship all of your goods UPS/FedEx insured, and fly commercial.

Link to list of hard cases approved by TSA for shipping firearms via air travel....

http://www.tsatraveltips.us/gu...ases-and-air-travel/

Maybe one large enough to store bow equipment and soft bag inside??

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
Anyone have experience with chartering a private plane for travel?

Charters are regulated under Part 135 of the FARs (Federal Regs).

I believe that forum member Sock Eating Golden is Chief Dispatcher for a Part 135 company. He could probably give you a quote.

Pretty much if you need to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it.

Definitely look into one of the Pelican rifle hard cases big enough to put the soft double bow case inside. Then put the starter pistol in with it for secure check in and handling. Your locks, military spec hard case and special handling all rolled in 1. The only issue would be going behind enemy lines with a pistol in certain states. Maybe a very cheap .22 rifle in that instance.

I have a little bit of experience with chartering, having flown charter for quite a few years in piston singles, twins, turboprops, and turbojet aircraft, domestic nd international.

It's going to cost you. A lot. It wont be close to comparable to airlining. If cost is an issue, then charter is not your friend.

The same rules and requirements that apply to airline travel also apply to charter flights, though many operators dont enforce them as vigorously, and few facilities for general aviation have security comparable to airline facilities.

For a flight across the country you'll want a turbojet aircraft, and when you get to ten passengers you're out of the realm of most midsize cabins. Some can seat ten, but that's usually not realistic, and they dont take baggage for ten.

If you plan to stay at your destination more than overnight, the aircraft wont be staying with you, unless you cover the cost of several hours charter each day. What that means to you is that you're paying the cost to get to your destination, plus the cost for the aircraft to return home empty, then come get you again a few days later. Both ways. You'll also be covering fees for pilots overnight, etc.

Jet charter makes sense where your time is more valuable than the cost of the flight, and it makes sense when you either have so much discretionary income that you dont think twice about the cost, or when the flight is a deduction for you. Otherwise, most of the time the flights are prohibitively expensive.

Someone mentioned airlining with a firearm in which you ave a lock and the only key. This is incorrect. You are only allowed TSA approved locks, which means locks easily opened by TSA with universal access.

I've chartered a 14 seat G5 for about $9K/hr.

^^^^
So 4 hours each way (8) x $9K = $56K. Throw in some extras, ramp fees, extra time, food and you'll be at $60K easy.

Like I said, if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it.