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Baroque Bloke |
RBG and Gorsuch dissent. “The Supreme Court is upholding a constitutional rule that allows state and federal governments to prosecute someone for the same crime. The court's 7-2 decision Monday preserves a long-standing rule that provides an exception to the Constitution's ban on trying someone twice for the same offense. …… Ginsburg dissented from Monday's ruling, which she called 'adherence to that misguided doctrine.' In a separate dissent, Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote, 'A free society does not allow its government to try the same individual for the same crime until it's happy with the result.' …” https://mol.im/a/7150357 Serious about crackers | ||
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quarter MOA visionary |
I'm sort of on the dissenting side. Too much political corruption. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
When faced with a demonstrably erroneous precedent, my rule is simple: We should not follow it,' wrote the justice who is the most likely to encourage his colleagues to overrule earlier high court decisions. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
I'm a nobody, but I agree with Justice Thomas. Q | |||
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Member |
My first glace thought on this is that they got it wrong. It feels really weird to actually agree with RBG on an issue. "The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford, "it is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards." "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in." | |||
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Member |
I have a problem with this one. If anything, NY's case against Manafort is far stronger than what the feds had. The feds just wanted to squeeze him into singing or composing on Trump. And we all know NY only wants it now as a way to effectively neutralize any pardon Trump could give Manafort. It's almost like watching the feds threaten federal civil rights charges against a police dept. that doesn't do what the feds want in a excessive use of force case. You shouldn't be allowed to keep trying the same crime (albeit in different venues) until you get the result you want. | |||
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| Move Up or Move Over |
Especially when the state has essentially unlimited funds to push with. Guilty by poverty should not happen. Let the state match his defense dollar for dollar and see how hard they push then. | |||
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| Member |
Another problem is that NY wasn't planning on going after Manafort before he got involved with the Trump Campaign. If they were, then they should have been at it all along. Now it just appears they're trying to blunt any pardon Trump might offer. I would think Manafort would have a case that everything the feds did to him was based on a hoax, not real probable cause, and that whatever they eventually found on him came only as a result of a bogus investigation that should have never existed. | |||
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| Baroque Bloke |
I hope, and expect, that President Trump will pardon Flynn. But I doubt that he has any intention to to pardon Manafort. Serious about crackers | |||
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| Member |
I tend to agree. But rest assured, there are people working furiously this moment, maybe even venue shopping, to find some kind of state or local charges to throw at Flynn if he gets pardoned. Count on it. | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
If that's true, then there was never any double jeopardy. About the best Manafort could hope for from proving that would be that anything brought up in court by the Feds could not be used against him. | |||
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| Muzzle flash aficionado  |
I agree that it feels wrong to side with RBG on anything, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. She and Gorsuch are correct on this one, IMO. I've never thought that the Founders anticipated "Double Jeopardy" to not apply to prosecutions by different governments (nor between criminal and civil indictments for the same action). flashguy Texan by choice, not accident of birth | |||
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